Ziggy Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Hi all, I thought I would start a new thread for people to share their thoughts and experience on, rather than just keep going on my Charlie thread... We've been looking at puppy training, feeling a little anxious as Charlie is our first dog, and we had a visit from a puppy trainer today... she recommended puppy classes but was also happy to do a home visit... While I'm happy we did this, and it was nice to get some help figuring out if we were doing things right, and also on how to start leash handling (I was feeling very blank about that, no idea what to do), some things, in hind sight, puzzle me... The lady who came, suggested gently that we were very late working on Charlie's recall. I felt a bit put off when she said 'oh, he has no idea, you REALLY need to work on that recall'... well I've only had Charlie for three days, and I had a feeling he wasn't supposed to be all recalled trained by now... To be fair to the lady, she was lovely, positive and gentle... and Charlie was quite tired, and unfortunately although we told her that, she didn't take a hint and kept trying to demonstrate things while a tired Charlie was trotting around the garden... the hints and tips she gave us were reassuring that we were not doing anything wrong... I just wonder if by now, aged 8 weeks, Charlie was supposed to know about recall?? He is doing good in many areas, as far as I can tell as a first time puppy owner (okie, that is talking from ignorance). His toilet training is brilliant... tonight he amazed me, when sleeping in a corner, by getting up, going to paw at the garden door, coming out with me for a wee, then while I was waiting in case he needed to do more, he trotted back to the door and pawed it again, then looked back as if to say 'what on earth are you waiting there in the dark for??' He seems happily settled... but it's hard to know what to expect from a pup, and everything i read or hear seems to say something different... i'm not worried, but would enjoy hearing other people's experiences... Oh, and of course, the trainer had to say 'well, Irish setters aren't the brightest breed'... While typing this we suddenly got a big fireworks display around here... it was quite funny to see Charlie jump up and run off, falling over his feet, then as I jumped up to the window saying 'oh look, Charlie, come, look' and acted excited looking at the window, he came to stand near me, stared at the fireworks with me and then settled on his blanket (Edited to add : to the person on here who helped me finding a trainer, next time I'll go for that person, rather than the cheaper closer trainer... this one wasn't bad at all, but I feel the other person would have been better and more circumstances aware) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xChicken04x Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 To be completely honest with you, at eight weeks old, he wont know a lot about recall. This is something you should work on with him over the coming weeks, but certainly not something he should have mastered in three days!!! He firstly needs to know his name. Whilst standing next to him, say 'Charlie' in a calm voice. If he looks at you, give him a treat. Also have a conversation with someone, within ear shot of Charlie and drop his name in everyone now and then. If he looks over, reward him. You should then know if he knows his name. If that is succesfull, you can move on. If I remember correctly, eight weeks old is a little young to be going out for walks isn't it? You need to practice recall at home if that's the case. Whilst he is distracted, go into another room and call him too you. Try not to use just his name, as his name is his name, not a command, if that makes sense! Try using 'Charlie, come here!' or just 'Charlie, come!' Be excited to see him when he comes to you and give him plenty of fuss. Practice that every day, and you should be fine. Add distractions along the way, so he learns to ignore these things when out and about. He will soon learn that coming to you = treats/praise. Going from personal experience, with Zara, the puppy stage is absolute bliss, compared to the teenage months! Remember, plenty of socialisation is the key. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Oh dear, that doesn't sound like the best experience It is a while since I had a puppy but I certainly wouldn't expect him to be recalling yet Yes it is worth starting work on the basics - but that could be something as simple as rewarding him with treats or praise everytime he comes to you. Sorry that is not very helpful, but I do hope you get the support you need. May be worth getting some puppy training books so you know what you want to work on. Sadly I think there are many canine trainers out there and they all have their different methods and ideas, some better than others. Shop around! xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesley Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I agree - it's a bit early Tali will recall but it helped that she knew her name when we collected her - the breeder had used the pups names as soon as prospective new owners had paid their deposit and given their pup a name. We're just working on the basics - and we know now that we were a little late starting some things with Jazz........and Carl now understands that it isn't clever to catch a puppy's paws each time it jumps up ( ) Tali pees in a certain sectioned off area but after I took her out this morning she went straight back to the door and made a fuss and running back to Carl - she has already learned that he will take her further. They went out and she pooped further up the field. So I now have 2 dogs who will pee on command but who want to poop in rough grass away from the house - I can live with that! (and Carl is the one collecting all the poop ) Do you have any books on puppies Ziggy? - I have The Perfext Puppy by Gwen Bailey and it is really helpful (we really should have used it more with Jazz ) If you Google puppy training you will find classes which are based on the Gewn Bailey methods. Training classes don't start until pups are around 12/13 weeks so I think all you need to do for now is basics. I spoke to a trainer in North Oxfordshire last year about extra training for Jazz - he was unhelpful and I didn't really get on with him (and that was just on the phone) so we didn't bother in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I know who Lesley is referring to and I didn't find him helpful either. The woman (Julie Love) I ended up with is great and very understanding. She also does 1 to 1 training at times to suit you, and wasn't at all phased by helping to train a saluki lurcher, which are notoriously hard to train. Some dogs will recall earlier and quicker than others - the more pedestrian breeds certainly do. My grandfolks had spaniels and labs (all working dogs) and they recalled early. For now, just get him used to beign near you and coming to you, so get some high value treats; chopped up tiny (yucky) frankfurters and cheese work best with Ruby. And give him a wee bit when he is near to you or comes over in response to his name. Charlie needs to get the idea that you're a good/nice person to be around. He will soon catch on. Can't wait to meet him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docsquid Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Charlie is gorgeous and it sounds like you are doing really well with him. I used to have an Irish Setter, but he was adult when we got him - he was fat and didn't know the word "walkies", just the word "pub"! You will need a very good trainer. We did sort of get him used to heel, and recall, but he wasn't very good, but then again he wasn't trained from young. What you do need is a very good trainer, and a lot of consistency, because Irish Setters are very excitable, and very distractable, and many, including my Bruno, are not very intelligent. Good luck with him, you have a lovely dog. I'm looking forward to seeing the pictures because I have such a soft spot for setters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 You're right about their temperaments docsquid - they're just liek Saluki lurchers Julie was brilliant at getting inside Ruby's head and working out the triggers for the couple of things that I couldn't stop her doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 Julie is coming to us next week... I think that was the problem with the other trainer that came... I'm not saying she can't be great with some dogs and families, but her only aim was 'get his attention at all cost', and that involved teaching the kids to literally jump up and down shouting his name shaking toys and treats excitedly, so he'd get excited to come to them... result was in one day Charlie started associating the sight of them with massive excitement... we decided he is already an enthusiastic dog, so no need to bring out that side of him, he is naturally exuberrant (no idea how to spell that), what we need is to learn how to get the girls to interact with him calmly, so everybody gets on nicely without need for huge excitement... We've progressed a lot since monday, by just changing how we interact with him, and he seems quite happy and more settled, and still happily playful, but in acceptable ways. I've been exchanging emails with Julie and she is very lovely and helpful, totally understood what was going wrong and agreed it had to be sorted soon, and advised a lot by email, and that's all without us having paid her a penny yet! She's coming next week for a long session here with just me, Charlie and my three year old girl (the interaction between those two needs the most control, Charlie is fine with the other girls but thinks Leia is just his sibling), then a week later with all my daughters. It was good to change the way things were going, already Charlie is again becoming a pleasure to be with, rather than the tearaway he became on sunday... it's important we control this, as I'm going through depression too (bad timing, I know... I was close to giving Charlie back to the breeder on Monday, but thankfully thanks to reasoning with OH and lots of tears on my daughters' part I changed my mind, and I'm happy to see how well he responds to a calmer approach), and he was so lovely yesterday when we took him to the vet and to school (carried in my arms), very gentle and calm when meeting vet, hearing other dogs (and there was a great big St Bernard barking in the waiting room), and when travelling in the car and meeting school kids. It's a relief to find things are going alright now, as he is such a good natured pup. Will take more piccies soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Glad to hear that you're getting it sorted Ziggy, and that Julie is coming over - send her my regards I totally agree; puppies are hyper enough, so keeping the children calm around Charlie is best - they pick up vibes really quickly. So sory to hear about the depression, I advise lots of cake. It doesn't help with a norty puppy around the place and the return to 'potty training'! Take care and call me if you want a chat xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesley Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Oh! don't mention the potty training Clare Jazz was never like this and I've been tearing my hair out - Tali also nearly went back yesterday I'm glad to hear Charlie is settling down Ziggy - it sounds like the best plan for him and the children. If you've got any cake left, please send some this way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 I advise lots of cake. That's the sweetest advice I've heard in a long time... didn't think of it... should plan a trip to local bakery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 It always works for me Dear. Wish I wasn't working, or I'd pop over for tea, cake and a snuggle of Charlie. If it's any consolation, Ruby was a piddler too, but saw the light after a couple of weeks and soon managed to hold it in. She's brilliant these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 Well I haven't had the time to go to the bakery, but I have some chocolate here to share... it would be nice to able to send it virtually... I hope it doesn't sound awful, but it's actually a relief to hear that other people are also struggling sometimes... (I don't mean I'm happy other people have hard times, I hope it doesn't sound that way). Sometimes when you're struggling it appears as if things are so smooth and easy for everyone else, or everyone else is so much better at handling things, it makes you feel like you're lacking in some way... On a good side, Charlie is still being a good boy. We have stopped giving him free access to the kitchen and conservatory, as it meant my three year old couldn't play or go around without him pouncing at her, and she was the one sent to the tv room, which is gated, and I felt it wasn't right to confine the child and let the dog have a bigger space. So yesterday OH and I went to buy a puppy play pen, which we now use when we are home so Charlie can be with us, get used to the kids playing, running, sitting, without thinking he has a right to interfere with them. It's nice to be able to have him amongst us without him owning the room and having me following everywhere to tell him what to do and not to do. He has his own room too, which is quite big and he goes there when we are out, he has his crate and chew stuff in there. He settles quite well both in the pen and the room, with a bit of moaning at times, but generally quite calm. He had a good play in the garden this morning, 'helping' us with a bit of work too. His toilet training has been great, the breeder had told me she'd have him more or less housetrained by the time he came to us, and I doubted her, but really she had done great and he has managed to keep that way here too, so I feel I am extremely lucky there... He is quite a perfect pup in many ways, really, I think it's just my general depression/anxiety stopping me from being over the moon about him. I hope Tali gets to grips with toileting soon, and life gets easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 It's fine to keep him confined to a smaller area for now Ziggy; they get confused with all the freedom and just run haywire. A playpen or a house lead are a good idea until he learns control and how to behave in the house. Teach the girls to ignore him when he's being naughty or too playful - Julie will show them this too. This means no eye contact, fold arms and turn away acting as if he's not there. He'll soon learn that bad behaviour doesn't gain him any attention at all. It's natural to want to play with a pup who bounces up, but it's far harder to cure them of it when they are bigger and can do more damage. Rosie's dad used to do this with Ruby when he visited and she still tries to jump up at him I wish I'd known that you needed a playpen - I have one going spare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesley Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I couldn't live without a crate and the playpens Jazz is still struggling - but improving a little bit every day. One playpen sections off part of the room so that puppy piddles are kept to a smaller area and the other playpen is Jazz's bolthole. I also have gates everywhere it is possible to have a gate Having already been through the puppy stage with Jazz, I knew what to expect.........but I wasn't expecting an incontinent puppy and two feisty characters, neither of whom will give an inch!! It's really hard work most of the time and we have good days and tiring days.....in fact, the good days are tiring as well I shouted at Carl this morning because when he has taken Jazz with him and fed all the animals he collects Tali and they all have a walk. He came back almost straight away as 'Tali was tired'.......aaaaaarrrrrrggggghh!! I just wanted 10 minutes to myself! It had been non-stop since Tali woke up and I just wanted 10 minutes to eat my yoghurt All I'd done was dry my hair and make the bed. You certainly wouldn't have thought I was coping if you'd seen me then I do know that this stage doesn't last forever and the more you put in now the more contented, happy and well trained, dog will emerge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 it's like having a newborn all over again, isn't it? Ruby is almost there, she has bags of energy though and will still get far too excited when she meets people, even if she knows them. She loves to play hard and fast though, then comes back home and crashes out for a few hours. If you make yoursefl really interesting, fun and dish out treats when he's good, then he will always come back to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Just remembered, you might want to try something like this at your door - I have found visitors to be the most *erm* 'disruptive' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesley Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 We had something similar from our trainer when Jazz was going for training - I must see if I've still got it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I remember you having that by the door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Couperwife Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 how fabby I think im going to print that off for my SIL, she looks after the 2 most bounciest dogs, its quite difficult to go round sometimes, especially if its wet outside (muddy footprints ) cathy x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I totally agree about visitors deing disruptive. The man at my dog training said whenever you had visitors to give them a cup of tea in one hand and cake in the other so they didn't have a hand free to pay attention to the dog! We have definately had ups and downs with Lola. She is 5 1/2 months old now. She is still biting/mouthing whatever you want to call it which is a pain. Its hard as we don't have consistency in our family as dad plays rough with her and encourages her to chase his hands and therefore bite them. Obviously this is completely going against what me and mum want. She does respond to a firm 'no' or 'ah' now which is better but still not perfect. She has definately improved which is the main thing. We have just been for a week away to Somerset with her and i have to say she was fantastic! We took her to Lyme Regis and it was lovely and sunny so the place was packed and she was brilliant. She walks well on a lead with her harness on, she is friendly to other dogs(sometimes too friendly!), she has stopped biting random people and she can be left outside places/in the car without barking. Her recall varies massively. When we are walking in fields and quiet open spaces she is fine and will come back straight away. Its is she gets distracted by another dog in busy dog walking parks that its a problem. Every dogs she sees she wants to go and say hello too and play with. The thing we have tried that works best is as soon as we spot another dog weget her attention on cheese(or whatever treat we have with us) and do heelwork off the lead. This (so far) has worked a treat but obviously if we are not quick enough off the mark or if there is a group of dogs its doesn't really work. We do get her back though after she has had her play. I took her dog training at a different time last week and the dogs in that class were all older dogs that go to keep up the routine so they don't get bad habits. Plus by the sounds of it the owners can't keep away! It opened my eyes to what i hope Lola will end up like, they were all so well behaved. We did a small agility course at the end which was fun. We got her spayed yesterday. We decided to get her done before her 1st season as we do have roaming border collies from the farm next door that have been known to go miles looking for a mate. Definately better to be safe than sorry. It was really strange her being so quiet when we brought her home last night. Her tail wasn't wagging and she just slept the whole evening apart from when she had her scrambed egg for tea! She is back to normal today though which is good. The vets have told us to keep her quiet for 10 days! Thats never going to happen. She has bounced back really well. Anyway it sounds like you are doing great with Charlie. It just takes time and paitence. I know Lola will not be perfect but she is perfect for us and she has adapted so she fits into our family life. Please post more pictures! I'll have to post a recent one of Lola. She hasn't grown that much since the last ones i posted a couple of months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesley Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 (edited) I love that "Lola has stopped biting random strangers" - I think that is the way we'll be heading with Tali , she will not stop launching herself at Jazz with jaws wide open she's like a Tasmanian Devil Glad to hear that Lola is settling down nicely - photos are a must Edited November 5, 2009 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 she sounds like a lurcher Lesley - they love to play rough and growly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Posted November 5, 2009 Author Share Posted November 5, 2009 (edited) I liked that 'stopped biting random strangers' too, made me laugh... not so funny for the random strangers I guess We've had to stop Charlie and Leia (my daughter) from interacting when he is even slightly excited, as he instantly lunges at her and play-bites too, no aggression, but behaving like she is a litter-mate, so we are now trying to teach him she is not a litter mate and he has to behave towards her like to other human family members. The pen really helped with that... he can see that she 'owns the room' and run around without being able to pounce on her. He was very good about it last night, she was running like crazy and I let her for a while, so he gets used to it, and he looked at her first, then laid down and stayed very calm. This morning was harder, he got very, very hyper very quick in the garden. We are chicken-sitting, and while he doesn't notice our chooks, he seems to feel differently about those chooks who suddenly appeared in the garden... We had a tough time having to constantly tell him to stay away from them, as he tried to pounce around their run a little too wildly (to the owner of those chickens, if you read this, don't worry, we got it under control, we were there the whole time and the chooks weren't phased). He remained hyper as I tried to bring in the house. Yesterday he was impeccable at 'staying' while I got through doors first then called him in or out, today he kept repeatedly lunging at the door uncontrollably... it makes it hard to feel good towards him... with the depression, I feel I have to concentrate on feeling in control (okie, maybe not fully, but at least to some extent) and building a bond with him, and the sudden hyper behaviour didn't help... Tomorrow, I'll let him have his 'mad run' around the garden BEFORE letting the guest chickens out in their run, hopefully then he can get some of his energy out without their presence making him go over to the wrong side of 'happy excitement'. I can't wait to be able to take him on walks... then I can come home from schoolrun, get him out on walks and get his initial morning surge of energy spent walking and interacting with him away from the garden. We already managed to get him to stop associating the house with excitement and hyper behaviour by using the pen, I hope the walks will help keep him happily exercised too. On this topic, I realise a puppy can't be taken for hours long walks, and that it should start small and build up gradually. Having never done this, I'm curious to know what to plan and expect... how much walking should I plan to start with daily, when Charlie can start going out in 19 days (not that I'm counting )? I want to give him the chance to get his energy out, but not overexert him. Sunshine, we'd love to see pics of Lola... I can't remember the earlier ones, will search for them on the forum... between us we have Charlie and Lola, like in the books and tv show... Edited November 5, 2009 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Posted November 5, 2009 Author Share Posted November 5, 2009 She loves to play hard and fast though, then comes back home and crashes out for a few hours. Charlie, and Irish Setters in general from what I've read and been told in the months of research, is like that too... sudden massive outburst of energy, run like mad, then flop and be very calm for most of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
