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On 11/12/2021 at 4:09 PM, Columbian said:

As various scientific studies have shown that masks make no difference to transmission of the coronavirus (trying to stop flies with a chain link fence) but do have a negative impact on the wearer by way of bacteria and less oxygen, why would you demonise people who read the science or who may have health reasons for not wearing one?  I have read that the development of children’s brains has been negatively impacted by mask-wearing.    

If they make no difference, why are doctors, nurses and the people doing the jabs and clinics still wearing them ?

I thought I was trying to help by not spreading it, if I didn't know I had it, by wearing a mask, rather than reducing my risk of catching it.

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On 11/12/2021 at 3:44 PM, Cat tails said:

Highest number of cases since EVER.

A new lockdown will probably be announced tonight for three weeks. 

So we still suck at lockdowns… it means restaurants have to close at 8 pm, supermarkets too. Others shops at 6 pm and no groups over 75 people. The only thing changing for me is that I have to shop faster… 😒

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My hubby has COPD and still wears a mask when in hospital for appointments etc and he has not gone into any shops since lockdown - if he can wear a mask while waiting and at one time he was waiting in A & E for 3 hours then most folks can wear them and most people are just not wearing them as they dont want to!   It certainly does help to not spread germs around and with flu on the go too then it makes sense to wear a mask.   Incidentally when walking along the street I absolutely loathe those folks vaping and blowing their smoke laden germs my way,  When they exhale the stuff you can see how far it spreads!

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@Columbian I would be interested to read studies showing that wearing face coverings has no effect on virus transmission, and also that wearing face coverings has impaired child development. Please would you post the links? Also please be aware that I don’t think anyone on this forum has (or would) criticise anyone for not wearing a face covering when they are medically exempt.

@Luvachicken Whilst I agree fully with your opinions on the public wearing face coverings, this is different to a lot of the fully protective masks worn by healthcare professionals in certain settings. A lot of these are fully fitted masks which along with other PPE do actually stop viruses getting in and out. You are right though that the whole point of us wearing face coverings is to try to prevent any virus we may have getting out. They do this by preventing moisture droplets getting into the air as that’s how we transmit the majority of virus particles. (Note I’m saying majority not all).

@Blackrocksrock I have totally the same thought when I follow someone who is vaping or smoking - it really makes me realise how I’m breathing air that was inside them and I find it quite disturbing!
 

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 Had my booster fairly early as had first one in Dec. OH vaccinated as we are volunteers for elderly  and vaccine Marshall's and I still do NHS nursing as locum despite being retired. I am sorry I have no time for anti vaxxers and people who just cant be bothered to wear a mask. On the tube people sit spreading their bacteria. 

ES' s girlfriend is a teacher double vaccinated and has picked up covid from a child at school. Many of the parents are immigrants who dont for whatever reason get vaccinated.  Watching with interest to see what happens at my old work where the HCA an East European from Romania refuses vaccine.  Shes had covid . We will see. Interesting how all anti vax people still expect a bed in ITU when they get it. Will get off my soap box now. Stay safe. Xx

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OH and I (57) are struggling to get our flu jabs locally and also accessing booster Covid jabs. The initial roll out was quick and efficient but, this time round, it all seems chaotic. I'm so fed up with the constant exhortation in the press to 'get the flu jab' when it's just not available locally!

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On 11/13/2021 at 4:54 PM, Alis girls said:

 Had my booster fairly early as had first one in Dec. OH vaccinated as we are volunteers for elderly  and vaccine Marshall's and I still do NHS nursing as locum despite being retired. I am sorry I have no time for anti vaxxers and people who just cant be bothered to wear a mask. On the tube people sit spreading their bacteria. 

ES' s girlfriend is a teacher double vaccinated and has picked up covid from a child at school. Many of the parents are immigrants who dont for whatever reason get vaccinated.  Watching with interest to see what happens at my old work where the HCA an East European from Romania refuses vaccine.  Shes had covid . We will see. Interesting how all anti vax people still expect a bed in ITU when they get it. Will get off my soap box now. Stay safe. Xx

Would you replay your comment again:  ‘…all anti vax people still expect a bed in ITU…’? Have you read your history of the run-up the the Second World War?  This was the language used to separate the nation and ended in ghettos and concentration camps.  Someone who refuses to take part in the experimental trials of any of the coronavirus vaccines is not necessarily ‘anti vax’; this is a perjorative term; I expect that these people pay their taxes towards the health service; some of them may be the very doctors and nurses you may need; the present vaccines do not stop one from getting or spreading the virus and a recent study from Norway says, I understand, that they do not prevent death from the virus, so what is the point of them?  I have no issue with anyone’s choice as to whether or not they take the experimental jabs but I do take issue with such language as you have employed and would like you to think about the implications of such an attitude with regard to humanity, equality and apartheid.  From Julia Hartley-Brewer:

             

The Austrian government is about to order a national lockdown - but only for the 1/3 of the population who remain unvaccinated. Absolutely *****ing terrifying. If you aren't disturbed by this - and everything else happening right now - you're a fool.

On 11/14/2021 at 3:54 PM, Columbian said:

Would you replay your comment again:  ‘…all anti vax people still expect a bed in ITU…’? Have you read your history of the run-up the the Second World War?  This was the language used to separate the nation and ended in ghettos and concentration camps.  Someone who refuses to take part in the experimental trials of any of the coronavirus vaccines is not necessarily ‘anti vax’; this is a perjorative term; I expect that these people pay their taxes towards the health service; some of them may be the very doctors and nurses you may need; the present vaccines do not stop one from getting or spreading the virus and a recent study from Norway says, I understand, that they do not prevent death from the virus, so what is the point of them?  I have no issue with anyone’s choice as to whether or not they take the experimental jabs but I do take issue with such language as you have employed and would like you to think about the implications of such an attitude with regard to humanity, equality and apartheid.  From Julia Hartley-Brewer:

             

The Austrian government is about to order a national lockdown - but only for the 1/3 of the population who remain unvaccinated. Absolutely *****ing terrifying. If you aren't disturbed by this - and everything else happening right now - you're a fool.

Correction:  pejorative.

 

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I stand by what I said so no I wont re read my comment. Like you Julie Hartley Brewer I am entitled to my opinion. We will never be free of Covid whilst some people refuse vaccine. I've had 3 vaccines and would rather take my chance  with that than covid. 

On 11/14/2021 at 10:20 PM, Alis girls said:

I stand by what I said so no I wont re read my comment. Like you Julie Hartley Brewer I am entitled to my opinion. We will never be free of Covid whilst some people refuse vaccine. I've had 3 vaccines and would rather take my chance  with that than covid. 

 

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I find that wearing a mask gives me a sore throat, but still wear one. Anyway, they are obligatory inside public places here and in some town centres outside as well. But we did visit someone at his home last week and we all wore masks until coffee time, then we distanced.

The numbers are rising here again at about 50% a week. The conclusion is that the virus won't get under control until everyone is vaccinated, so we are 25% of the population short. Whilst there are no sanctions against them at present, they do have to now pay for a PCR test which was free, but is now €40 (very cheap compared to other countries), to get into many places.

Showed a map of Europe yesterday with all the EU countries which are seeing a huge rise in cases creating a 5th wave; about half of them. Hopefully France has reacted quick enough and the 3rd doses will do the job. I guess if I get any side effects this time it will be because the effectiveness of the first doses has worn off.

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Had a big shock with a news report today. As most of you know the cases are rising rapidly across Europe; 86% here last week. The question remains why? Previously thought to be due to sloppy social distancing and insufficient numbers vaccinated, it appears now they are not the reasons.

As I mentioned before, AstraZeneca was a major flop because of the small risk of blood clotting which could in some rare cases result in death. The effectiveness of AstraZeneca against the delta variant is, after a month, 75% but Pfizer is 88% after the same period, so on that basis you would say Pfizer is better. You would reasonably expect to see a tail off of those figures over time. After 4 months AstraZeneca will have dropped to 67%, BUT Pfizer is down to just 47%! We're at 5 months now, so on that basis by the time we get our third jab we may have little, if any immunity at all? And the next question is bound to be "how long will this third jab give us a reasonable degree of protection?" They don't have figures for Moderna yet; it might be the way forward?

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Well, its even worse than that for the single J&J jab which is what I had.  The case numbers in Portugal are going up despite the fact we have one of the highest levels of double jabbing in the world.  This is for the reasons you outline Beantree, plus we are only giving the 3rd jab to people over 65.  The Govt is expected to make announcements soon on new rules, particularly for the Xmas period, and maybe that age limit will go down.  We are quite an open society, no need to show vaccine 'passports' in restaurants etc, but we do still wear masks everywhere.  A few days ago it was announced that everyone over the age of 18 that has had a J&J jab can have their booster (not sure which flavour) which leads me to conclude J&J immunity is/was much lower than Pfizer/AZ (well it was definitely lower, but I think its efficacy has been short lived as well, perhaps more so than the others).   I need to return to the UK, but I would definitely like my '3rd' jab here, so I don't muck up my vaccine passport for travel purposes.

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I don’t dispute any of what’s said above.

However, I read a letter from a hospital intensive care doctor (published by the Guardian) who said that except for people with severe underlying conditions or the very elderly, all the people in intensive care with Covid were unvaccinated. So it does sound like even if the vaccines aren’t stopping infections as well as we would like, they are significantly reducing very severe illness in most cases.

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Indeed, that is the case, having your full quota of jabs does lessen your chances of going into hospital or dying.  The woman in charge of the NHS said the best thing any of us can do to help ourselves and NHS this winter is to get vaccinated.

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Well, someone is smiling down on me.  Yesterday the Govt announced that J&J jabs will be given in walk-in clinics on Sundays starting in Dec.  This morning at 3am I got a text inviting me to have my booster this Sunday, with a timed slot.   This is wonderful as now I can book a flight (assuming we/UK don't go into full lockdown).  It will either be Moderna or Pfizer.

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They are just announcing the new measures here in France @Daphne, which are there to attempt to counter the steady rise in cases and what is officially the 5th wave. PCR tests are only valid for 24 hours now, not 72. It's now down to 5 months after your second to qualify for your 3rd. From 15th January if you haven't had your next jab within 7 months you lose your health pass; do you have to start again? Extra centres are now opening from this weekend. They will not be any restrictions on movement, but policing of social barriers will be increased, particularly validation of passes (which are being faked). France has 26 million doses of Pfizer in stock and is receiving 2 million more every week, so they will have enough for the 50 million 3rd doses.

So we could cancel our appointments for the 14th and book asap, but won't. From December a new antiviral medication will be available; don't know what but it might be the anti-Covid tablet they have been talking about?

There are currently 8000 school classes closed, but the Pfizer vaccine has been approved for the 5-11 year olds and the majority of teachers and older students are vaccinated, so I think they are going stop shutting classes just because one pupil tests positive. The largest increase in infections this week in any group was the 5-10's at 148%.

Will we now need to have a repeat dose every 5-7 months?

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I saw the bullet points about the health pass on the lunchtime news Beantree.  My OH still can't fly because of blood clot, hoping to get the all clear at end of Dec, but he is currently too young to get a 3rd shot here, so the next hope is that they lower the age limits for the booster (I feel sure they will), otherwise he is never going to get to see his 94 year old mother!  I hadn't realised you were still so restricted in France, with school closures, but if the news is correct about having a new tablet, then that is a game changer.  With my last post I was thinking at this rate we are going to have to have a new jab every 6 months, not every year, unless perhaps we have it annually, but in say Sept/Oct/Nov like the flu jab to protect across the winter.

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@Beantreethe speech was leaked overnight and I took the chance early this morning to book my booster 5 months after my last, managed to get an appointment for the 8th December. Since the speech Doctolib site has crashed with demand, so I am so pleased I took the chance however had it not been announced I would have rescheduled for early January.

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Had my booster today and ES had his 2nd jab. With OH having had his 2 + booster that's good news. Not so good news is that YS is currently self isolating after a positive PCR on Monday and not allowed out until Wednesday 1st. His secondary school has had 50 positives for the period Saturday to Monday so, even with his mask, it's not surprising. All keeping our fingers crossed now that we don't get it but we are in seperate bathrooms (YS even wears a mask to exit his room, and cross the landing to 'his' bathroom!) Apparently around 5 days is the incubation period so we are all now testing x2 per day! I do wish that masks were still compulsory!

Hope everyone else is staying safe and Covid free!

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