My eco solution to rat problems

[thedruggist]

Hi All

 

Some help please for a new Beek. I got my bees at the end of May in the form of a nuc. Up to now they have been drawing out new frames and have now occupied all the frames. So they seem quite strong. I did an inspection on Sunday and found one varroa mite on the inspection plate. Had a mini inspection today to see if they are drawing out the supers (and they are) and found 8 mites on the plate al around the same region (ie not spread all over the place).

 

I would welcome any advice on if I should be worried about this increase and should I be doing anything? Of course I'll consult with my local association and re-read some of my books but any advice from any source will be useful.

 

Thanks in advance. Oh yes, I forgot, I have a Beehaus.

 

Tony

[eggmayo]

Hi,

I'm a new beek too. I've found the information (Managing Varroa booklet) on DEFRA's BeeBase website really useful for up to date stuff on Varroa control. It's got information on whether you should be doing anything depending on your mite drop count. It's at https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/index.cfm?pageid=93. There's lot of other useful stuff on beekeeping there too.

 

Hope this helps.

[thedruggist]

Thanks Eggmayo

 

That's a great site and a great "leaflet". Since I don't think I'll be collecting honey this year I guess I'll be applying Apiguard.

 

I'll seek some advise next Sunday when we meet at the Association's apiary.

 

Thanks again.

 

Tony

[MedusA]

If you are not planning to take any honey (I didn't in my first year whilst the bees were building up their colony strength), then it is OK to give them an Apiguard treatment now.

 

However if you think you might want at least a bit of honey, you would need to delay Apiguard until after you've taken the honey off. I'm a relatively new beek too, so I'm happy to be corrected on this, but my understanding is that the only treatment you can use whilst honey supers are on the hive, is a dusting with icing sugar. The theory is it clogs up the varroa mite's feet and they can't grip on to the bee and so fall off. This only gets rid of adult mites clinging on bees, not those in the cell though, so is not a substitute for treatment later in the season.

 

Hope that helps.

[chickenanne]

I reckon the first thing to do is see what the level of varroa in the hive really is. Try counting the drop from 3 days, dividing the number by 3, and this will give you a figure for a daily drop which should be slightly more accurate than a snapshot of one day only. It does sound like you have 4 per day? But it depends on whether you could've missed any on Sunday. The other option, which many say is more accurate still, is to uncap drone brood, if you have enough to give an accurate picture. From this and the Defra leaflet you will be able to see how bad the problem is.

 

You can also try drone-trapping as a chemical-free treatment - put a shorter super frame in the brood box. The bees may then add wild comb to the gap between the bottom of the frame and the floor of the hive, which will invariably (well, if they read the books!) be drone-cells. Once these are capped over you can remove them, along with a lot of the varroa (given that varroa prefer drone larvae). You thereby knock down the varroa population without adding anything to the hive (either man-made chemicals or naturaly-occuring chemicals). The down-side with this is that you remove drones (obviously) which some folk reckon are not the waste-of-space more traditional thought would have it, and also that the bees may not do as you want them to - i.e. may not draw out drone-sized comb or any comb at all.

 

Some beeks swear by icing-sugar dusting to keep varroa at a tolerable level over periods where there's supers and brood, others say it's a waste of time. I'm not sure either way, so will let someone else debate that point!

[thedruggist]

Thanks for the constructive replies.

 

Having read the books again I realise that the mite drop so far is OK, but I'll keep monitoring it. Having never seen a varroa, to then being disappointed in finding one (don't know why when 95% of hives have them!), to then finding 8 , two days later was a bit of surprise to a new Beek!

 

I'll have another look in a couple of days as I need to check out the bees work in the supers (I took the QE off to get them used to going up and need to close it off to Her Maj before she starts laying up there).

 

Thanks again

 

Tony

[Old Speckled Hen]

You could use Hiveclean. It's supposed to help and I'm sure you could make it part of your IPM before treating with Apiguard later this year. Others will probably disagree but many members of my BKA use it.

[troyca]

If you want honey you will have to wait till after you have taken it to treat. Last I read the drop rate/treatment ratio from DEFRA was thought to be optomistic. Certainly these days I don't think anyone would NOT treat after honey harvest. I believe the advice is to vary your treatment to discourage resistence.I am sure you are aware ,it isn't about eradication but population control. At this time of year ,with brood numbers at their peak, varroa drop will be relatively high. BTW I also was told icing sugar,although it encourages grooming to get the bees to groom off the varroa, has something in it that is supposed to not be good for bees! You can't win Bee keepers can be a load of nay sayers so do what you find works for you as they don't seem to agree on much!

[chickenanne]

Ooh, I think you're right - some folk reckon the anti-caking agent in icing sugar isn't good.

[MedusA]

some folk reckon the anti-caking agent in icing sugar isn't good.

 

Yes. Somebody at our BKA told me that too. I've decided not to do any more unless it's my only option.

[Old Speckled Hen]

You can make your own icing sugar from granulated in a blender, easy peasy and just pure sugar.

[Chuckov]

We 'inherited' our bees and as such have had major varroa problems this year. We treated with icing sugar but there is a right and a wrong way to do it - if you do it the wrong way as we did then you end up dessicating your developing larvae and eggs

 

The varroa has been so bad that we've had to take off the supers, treat with oxalic acid (which you would normally only do in the winter) and basically shut the hive down for the winter. We are not the only ones having problems this year apparently.

 

We will treat again with ApiLifeVar at the end of the season and then again with oxalic acid at the usual time - and hope for the best.

[Old Speckled Hen]

What is the wrong way and what is the right way to use icing sugar, please?

Oxalic acid does not treat varroa in the brood so why are you using it now?

How can you shut a hive down when bees are still flying? What exactly have you done with it?

[Chuckov]

What is the wrong way and what is the right way to use icing sugar, please?

Oxalic acid does not treat varroa in the brood so why are you using it now?

How can you shut a hive down when bees are still flying? What exactly have you done with it?

 

Apparently the wrong way is to take the frames out and sprinkle it over with the frames horizontal as the sugar 'contaminates' cells and the queen will not then lay in them. Existing larvae and eggs are dried out. You are supposed to leave all the frames in and sprinkle sugar over the top then brush the excess into the seams.

 

We applied oxalic acid because that is what the Bee Inspector advised us to do when he opened our hive as one of his random inspections. Unless you know better?

 

By shut down I mean, supers off, entrance block in, crown board on and hole blocked up to nurture our dwindling colony of bees as much as possible. No more honey other than what they store themselves - just keeping things small. Just as if it was winter. Also on Bee Inspector's advice.

 

I am assuming that you are in fact just interested and that I am imagining what I felt to be a rather accusatory tone to your message ?

[Olly]

That's interesting, did the Bee Inspector recommend that you feed them, or are they just relying on existing stores?

 

Can I just add that my own reading of OSH's post was simply that she was curious as to what this meant, I don't think there was anything accusatory in it, but no doubt she will tell you herself next time she logs on!

[chickenanne]

I inherited my bees early spring 2009, and they too had a terrifying level of varroa. I was advised (by mentor) to use oxalic acid, too, which I did - bear in mind mentor was president of local association and I'd had the bees less than a week (are we the same person, OP??? ). So I was taking advice from a decent source -and - no offence meant - not some random off t'interweb .

 

However, the issue is that Oxalic Acid does not affect varroa under brood-cappings, and a huge proportion of the varroa will be in sealed brood. So if you have any brood then treating with Oxalic Acid won't work very well. In fact, it should do almost nothing for the varroa levels in the hive. The oddity was that this treatment on my bees actually worked a little- reducing the varroa count beyond what you would expect to happen if it was just working on varroa on the bees. I can't explain why it worked; I'm sure I was counting varroa accurately before and after treatment. It didn't do enough to reduce the varroa to a safe level, so I then treated with thymol. I felt terrible about the oxalic (mis-) treatment, but in fact if you're a beginner and advised by a genuinely experienced and respected beekeeper then following the advice is not unreasonable!

 

If your hive has sealed brood then I would be very very wary of trusting oxalic acid to do the job - it really shouldn't. At the very least, if you have sealed brood then keep monitoring varroa as carefully as you can, and be prepared to treat urgently with something else.

[Old Speckled Hen]

Unless you know better?

 

 

I am assuming that you are in fact just interested and that I am imagining what I felt to be a rather accusatory tone to your message ?

 

Absolutely not. I am just learning too and it is helpful if people explain what they mean.

I am sorry I offended you.

Other people on this forum know I wouldn't hurt a fly (bee?)

[Old Speckled Hen]

PS and your reply was very helpful