Unsecure chicken perches

[midori]

I went to a local ish agricultural show yesterday and had a look in the poultry tent. (one of the reasons we went at all)

 

I admit I am a newbie keeper, so may be wrong about what I saw, but I wondered if the following is usual?

 

More than one of the birds placed in each section seemed to have scaley leg mite, or at least, the leg scales were quite raised, very badly in one case. Generally though, the birds did all seem in good condition.

 

The birds were in quite small cages, which I assume is standard. Not all had access to water, although some did, is this normal? It was quite a hot day. Also, there were no supervisors or anything and some rather annoying members of the public were 'teasing' the birds, putting fingers through bars and encouraging them to peck them and poking at the birds etc. I did at one point make a loud comment to my husband in ear shot of one of these idiots, I have to admit.

 

Finally, one othe cockerels, and I am not sure what breed, but is seemed to have won some sort of section, had extremely long tail feathers, about 1m long. He was white too, but was clean. I have to admit I had to wonder how the bird was kept to preserve those feathers, but as I said, I ama newbie, so maybe they just stay that way? Some birds seemed to have quite long claws too.

 

I ask as I have been involved in high level dog and horse showing and although I would never be a part of it, I am aware that there are quite a few practices that go on that are at best awful, at worst serious welfare issues. Is it the same with poultry, or am I over-reacting?

[mostin]

I remember looking round poultry shows and being shocked...........and now I show in them .

 

The no water and food thing seems really cruel, and I remember being really upset by that when I first saw that. The birds have to have empty crops, for the judges to "feel" their true body shape to judge them, but as soon as the judging is over............I am in there like a shot with food and water, as are all good poultry keepers.

 

If water containers were still empty after judging had been carried out, then yes, you are right to be concerned.

 

I would never show a bird with scaley leg either . I am surprised they didn't ask the exhibitor to remove that bird, as the mites are highly contagious.

 

The birds with really long tail feathers perch on very high perches so their feathers don't touch the floor, once they have been washed for the show.............so I have been told.

 

I can't speak for everyone who shows their birds, I suppose their will be a few bad apples , but the people I have met through here and my poultry club do care about their birds, but it is a different mentality to keeping pet chooks.

 

I think many of them keep them indoors more, which would explain the claw length you saw. I am always getting tutted at by other breeders and judges as my red's are sun-bleached, but I still let them free-range . They just get washed and spruced 3 days before a show, then trained to be ready for their pens.

 

You have to "pen-train" birds because of those stupid people you mentioned, who prod fingers through, and shout and mimic crows etc . My biggest cockerel is used to this now, and snoozed through the whole of the Yorkshire show on thurs . If a bird is really upset and freaking out, it will set the others off, and a good show steward may take it out of the show.

 

It is a concern that you couldn't see any of the stewards in charge of the show , normally you are forever bumping into people wearing white coats with badges on them saying steward, or judge.

 

With your comments about lack of water, and scaley leg, I don't think you saw one of the best or more sternly run shows. I hope it doesn't put you off going to see more.

 

And if you do ever have any welfare concerns when at a show, there should always be a chief steward and a vet on hand, please make your feelings known. On a hot day, all those birds should have had water.

 

Phew, sorry, that turned into a bit of a ramble

[Redwing]

I went to a local ish agricultural show yesterday and had a look in the poultry tent. (one of the reasons we went at all)

 

I admit I am a newbie keeper, so may be wrong about what I saw, but I wondered if the following is usual?

 

More than one of the birds placed in each section seemed to have scaley leg mite, or at least, the leg scales were quite raised, very badly in one case. Generally though, the birds did all seem in good condition.

 

They shouldnt have scaley leg mites, they would normally be removed if this was spotted but at the very least would have been passed over for prizes, no good showperson would enter a bird like this, apart from anything its really bad for your reputation

 

The birds were in quite small cages, which I assume is standard. This is standard yes, there are recommendations for each size of bird, show cages come in a few sizes, showpeople have mock up cages at home and the birds are placed in there for a few hours at a time to get used to being in a cage so you'll find that few are stressed on show day

 

Not all had access to water, although some did, is this normal? The birds will have had water available overnight the previous night but on penning at the show they will then be without water until after the judging, this is normal and judging takes place within a few hours of being at a show then the birds can have water, some people will water their birds at the start of the day regardless but most will hold off till after the judging.

When the judging is completed its normally up to each competitor to water their birds but some just dont, not all are good and a few forget too.

At big shows the show organisers will take responsibility for the watering but at most small ones its up to the competitor, sometimes the stewards will intervene and water the birds if some are spotted without any. Some shows will put a notice up to advise that birds dont get water till after judging as the general public often ask about this. Most showpeople have put a lot of time and investment in to their stock and wouldnt let them suffer

 

It was quite a hot day. Also, there were no supervisors or anything and some rather annoying members of the public were 'teasing' the birds, putting fingers through bars and encouraging them to peck them and poking at the birds etc. I did at one point make a loud comment to my husband in ear shot of one of these idiots, I have to admit.

 

There are two types of poking that happen at shows, the public trying to touch or tease the birds is common, again the bird will have had pen training and will be used to this but you are right its not really on. The other type of poking that happens is where you want a game bird cockerel to have a bit of passion and fight so competitors will often demonstrate their birds feisty attitude or go and test out the competition, this is pretty common really (and not to be confused with any desire to actually use the birds for fighting!) you could argue that its not acceptable I guess.

The judges will also use a stick through the bars on some birds to get them to stand square, this is gently done and again the bird should have had this happen as part of their pen training

 

Finally, one othe cockerels, and I am not sure what breed, but is seemed to have won some sort of section, had extremely long tail feathers, about 1m long. He was white too, but was clean. I have to admit I had to wonder how the bird was kept to preserve those feathers, but as I said, I ama newbie, so maybe they just stay that way?

 

In general show birds with long tails, feathered feet etc.. are kept undercover at the very least or indoors in roomy pens, on a thick layer of woodshavings and have roomy perches so as not to damage their feathers - the long tailed birds will have high perches away from walls etc..

 

 

Some birds seemed to have quite long claws too. These should be trimmed if necessary

 

I ask as I have been involved in high level dog and horse showing and although I would never be a part of it, I am aware that there are quite a few practices that go on that are at best awful, at worst serious welfare issues. Is it the same with poultry, or am I over-reacting?

The poultry fancy is full of different characters, some are old school and some embrace modern techniques but most are fond of their birds, take pains to make sure that they have the best of care and appreciate the benefits of free ranging, fresh air and good feed etc.. Some of my lot are living the life of riley at the moment, getting muddy and staying out in the rain but when show season approaches and they get ready to moult the cockerels will be separated, the show birds will be removed to a roofed area and the maintenance will be upped. I used to show ponies and I remember them being bought in on the approach to show season for more intensive maintenance, thick beds and less access to mud, a different life to the rest of the year but not necessarily worse, they were used to it just as show chickens are.

 

If the show person is well prepared then not a lot will faze the bird, mine certainly dont suffer from being shown, you do get the odd casual show-er who will being a pet bird, this is great for the fancy and is a good way of getting in to the hobby but these are the birds that are usually most stressed

 

There are good and bad in any show scene but in poultry there is no money in winning and very little recognition outside of the fancy so most people are genuine and do it purely for enjoyment spending a lot of money on preparation and travel to put on a good show

 

The summer show season is a little different to the rest of the year, many people dont have birds in showable condition or old enough to show, they are breeding and raising chicks and growers so are busy, the standard is not as high in many cases. If you go to any of the big shows over the main show season, The National, The Federation, High Peaks, Reading Bantam Show or The Northern (just to mention a few) you'll find the birds will be perfect in nearly every detail and rules will be more firmly in place.

 

Dont be put off by this experience, shows are great for seeing lots of different type of birds up close

[the bradley bunch]

i'm a newbie too so i can't really tell you if this is 'normal' practice or not. but either way it sounds like you were a bit distressed by what you saw and it's your feelings that matter.

i agree with mostin's advice that if you have any welfare concerns (if you go to another show) don't be afraid to voice them (discreetly of course) to the person in charge, even if you are a newbie to chooks & shows. i never go to any type of animal show because i know that i wouldn't beable to keep my big mouth shut if i saw something i didn't like

 

i'm sure most poulty keepers who show care very much about their birds and i imagine this is the reason why they want to show them off (because they are so proud of them)...

maybe the best idea is to check out a show with other omletters before going to make sure it's got a good rep (like Redwing has suggested a few and advice about seasons).

[midori]

Thankyou so much for taking the time to answer.

 

I suppose the main thing that concerned me was the lack of water. Judging was definitely over and well over half the birds didn't have water. I was looking out for anyone 'official' looking, but couldn't find anyone.

 

Maybe not for now, but I'd possibly like to get into showing a bit in the future. How do people get into it? I am not currently a member of any poultry society yet and am not even sure it is for me, but could I offer to help/steward at some shows to find out more?

 

It was nice to see all the birds, I have to admit, and most seemed calm and not too stressed. I didn't know what a lot of them were though.

[Redwing]

At some shows they will put a tag on some of the cages to let you know what breed the bird is, this is always a nice touch and helps you compile a shopping list

 

I joined my local poultry club and went to one of their shows but you dont have to be a member to go to a show, just find out the local ones in your area and go along to observe to start with, the main season starts around October

 

If judging was over then the birds should have had water, most of the time people are waiting coop cups in hand for the ok to water their birds but as I said some are better than others and if the show stewards are absent then no one is there to double check it, as Mostin says there will always be someone on site to report these things to, in the case of a bigger agricultural show where there is a lot going on you'll have to seek them out. At a local show or specialised poultry show you'll find at least 4-5 people on hand to help