2009 Omlet cube and run for sale

[AJuff]

I have always been told 3 beeks and 5 different ways of doing things! However when it comes to decision time I don't know what to do for the best.

 

My nuc arrived just under two weeks ago on five frames, all drawn and brood on 4. In the short time they have been with me they are now drawing out the last frames either side. So should I add a second brood box? Add a super brood box? Add a honey super? I can't decide as I'm not sure how things will develop at the end of the summer. Any good advice? I'm in Northumberland!

[Guest]

There is space for 22 frames in a Beehaus without adding any supers or double brooding. Not really sure what a 'super brood box' might be (some advisers just do not understand the terminology); it is either a super (for honey) or a brood box (for brood).

 

Although the bees would not venture to fill all the frames possible in a brood box they will, I am told, happily fill about 15-16 (they would likely then swarm).

 

I would not consider keeping two colonies in a beehaus (apart from temporarily after an A/S), but I suppose there are some who might think the hive is for more than one full colony.

 

RAB

[AJuff]

My bees are in a national hive.

[Old Speckled Hen]

How many frames of brood?....not brood on frames...it's not the same.

The general advice is wait till you have 7 or 8 frames of brood.

You say they have drawn out ...nearly....6 frames in two weeks. What is on those frames? You need to have a look at that before making a decision.

I didn't expect any honey from my nuc last year, I just helped them build up to a hopefully decent overwintering size and there was no way I would have put a super on.

A second brood box is either the same size as the first and I would have thought only applicable in the spring for a fast expanding colony, or you could go with adding a super for brood and a half.

Then there is the weather.

Northumberland......cool and windy? Maybe a generalisation. What forage is there to look forward to?

Bramble, Rosebay is probably it, then Balsam if you are really lucky and Ivy is for winter stores for the bees themselves.

I don't think you'll have enough to get honey in a super but hopefully you will next year.

Remember, by the end of June the queen will start to slow down her laying.

Hope this helps

[Guest]

There you go then!. Insufficient information leads to conflicting advice. Obviously you need to explain your needs more precisely!

 

One would hope those drawn frames will be filled with brood not sugar honey, but for all I know you have been advised to feed them excessively (by those othe rtwo beeks) and have done so.

 

You tell us in one sentence 'all drawn' and in the next sentence (of the same paragragh) you tell us the bees are now drawing out the last frames either side. I would suggest you move them to a full sized brood box as there is not normally extra broods and supers for nucs.

 

Of course, I am a little different and do have these components in my repertoire.

[Old Speckled Hen]

I think Ajuff means they are in a standard brood box already and the outside frames are being drawn...at least that is what I understood. That is why I asked her to tell us what is on the three frames each side of the ones she transferred from the nuc .

[AJuff]

I think Ajuff means they are in a standard brood box already and the outside frames are being drawn...at least that is what I understood. That is why I asked her to tell us what is on the three frames each side of the ones she transferred from the nuc .

 

 

I didn't realise I hadn't made my self clear enough. Old Speckled Hen is correct, they are in a National brood box with brood, sugar honey and pollen an all but the outer two frames. Yes I was told to feed them 1:1 sugar syrup and I still am. So back to the original question of what to do now? Add a second brood box either deep or shallow, or add a super for honey? Keep feeding or stop?

[Old Speckled Hen]

So have you brood on nine frames with stores in an arc over the top?

 

 

Are they collecting nectar and pollen?

Then yes, super and stop feeding.

You can't super and feed, they will just put the sugar in the supers.

 

If you have just the four solid frames of brood with store frames each side then the queen is going to run out of laying space. Stop feeding, move one store frame each side to the outside bringing the frames being drawn to the inside of those.

Two frames of stores are enough for a week if no flow or the bees are kept in by adverse weather by which time you will be checking the hive again.

 

I had a nuc from the same source last year and was told to feed.

In my ignorance I did so and they swarmed.

[Guest]

To be honest I had suspected strongly that you were not talking beehaus, but there are so many out there that haven't a clue that I don't like assuming anything - especially on a 'beehaus' forum. There are also a lot out there, reading the thread, that would not be able to comprehend your post.

 

Don't take my advice and only feed if necessary - follow your other advice and keep feeding. That way you can end up with loads of sugar honey and not so much brood.

 

I have no idea of the forage available in your area, but I added a frame of foundation to each of 4 splits (with virgins) just a couple of days ago (reducing the stores already there, by the frame I removed). These are three frame nucs and they now have no brood to service, but they are already storing nectar, as honey, in these frames, having drawn them adequately and continuing to do so..

 

I observe and assist the bees as I see fit. At this present time I would not countenance adding extra food for them. A waste of time, effort and cost. Further, no advantage for the bees, as I may well need to add another frame with foundation before the queens start laying.

 

So you need to be doing exacltly the same as I. Observing and acting at the appropriate time. Thus far you seem to be choking the box with added stores and not really achieving a great deal in the way of colony expansion. If it were me doing that, I would be thinking 'why am I doing this?' 'what is the eventual outcome?', 'is this doing anything to increase the colony size?'

 

Your bees obviously have brood to service so there may be a requirement to feed - and there may not be - but you need to observe and act accordingly, not just blindly follow an instruction which seems to be rather (even totally) unqualified.

 

Frankly, you have likely muffed it already. They, as a colony, are ill-equipped to sustain a further box and expand, and are likely constipated in the box they are occupying. One possible scenario is an early swarming colony, before they have developed properly/fully. If the weather and forage is favourable, you may get away with it, and likely should- there is time left in the season, hopefully, for the bees to avoid your over benevolence.

 

If I were taking over this colony, I would likely be removing frames of stores, if they were housed in my locale. But that would depend on my observations, of course. I might also be dummying the brood nest to assist their expansion.

 

RAB

[Guest]

OSH,

 

At least we are on the same wavelength!

 

Your advice, although at variance with my probable actual 'return to normality' for the nuc is bonafide way of reversing the likely check on the colony development.

 

And you have also experienced this same supplier, which resulted in early swarming - we are in agreement on that, too! Perhaps this supplier needs talking to?

 

The only thing I disgree with you is where you say : You can't super and feed, , as some patently would do so successfully, even if not to be advised! (replace 'can't' with 'shouldn't').

 

Regards, RAB

[Kermit]

Problem with beeks - ask one a question and get one answer. Ask two and get three answers (at least). Beekeeping is an art not a science. Hence, there are many ways of achieving the same thing. Over the last 2 years I have learnt to listen and then make my own decision based on advice. However, follow one piece of advice, don't mix several together as this rarely works.