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[Blackrocksrock]

Any one got an air source pump which heats their radiators and water and if so what does it cost to run and are you happy with it? I need to install a new form of heating from a multifuel boiler which heats the whole house and I have been swithering about oil but...... Hubby thinks we should get a pump and I need to be convinced about price as well.

Edited June 10, 2009 by Guest

[chickenanne]

I haven't but we did look into it, though this was a couple years ago things might have improved.

They become much more expensive for every extra degree you heat the water by: so if you're going from an air temperature of, say 5 degrees to a water temp of 20 degrees that's not too bad, but to 40 degrees is very expensive to run becuase of the electricity costs. So you really need to install underfloor heating pipes, and run it 24/7, also have lots of really good insulation. Running water through standard-sized radiators at 20 degrees C is not going to warm your house up enough. If you're in the house most of the day, then it makes more sense. We're not so it seemed silly to consider heating an empty house, regardless of how good the insulation is.

When we realised the cost of having to step the temperature up from -8C or whatever to 15C we reckoned it just wasn't worthwhile for us.

Also, they are not soundless to run: similar noise level to a washing machine on spin. You need the pump to be as close to the house as possible, as otherwise you lose heat in the pipework etc.

A lot of the statistics on running costs are a bit odd, in that the air temp and house temp are easy to manipulate - you ideally need to be able to compare oil heating with the same parameters (including same level of insulation). So if you're comparing you need to be careful.

In terms of carbon dioxide emissions, the pump itself uses electric so obviously that needs to be factored in, as does the CO2 cost of upgrading radiators/ changing flooring /getting rid of old system /redecorating afterwards /etc.

As I said, this may well have changed now as this was what I remember from about 18 months - 2 years ago.

 

We went for oil in the end (a condensing combi boiler). The other thing you could think about is wood-fired heating system, so long as you have plenty space to store the wood, of course!

[Blackrocksrock]

I haven't but we did look into it, though this was a couple years ago things might have improved.

They become much more expensive for every extra degree you heat the water by: so if you're going from an air temperature of, say 5 degrees to a water temp of 20 degrees that's not too bad, but to 40 degrees is very expensive to run becuase of the electricity costs. So you really need to install underfloor heating pipes, and run it 24/7, also have lots of really good insulation. Running water through standard-sized radiators at 20 degrees C is not going to warm your house up enough. If you're in the house most of the day, then it makes more sense. We're not so it seemed silly to consider heating an empty house, regardless of how good the insulation is.

When we realised the cost of having to step the temperature up from -8C or whatever to 15C we reckoned it just wasn't worthwhile for us.

Also, they are not soundless to run: similar noise level to a washing machine on spin. You need the pump to be as close to the house as possible, as otherwise you lose heat in the pipework etc.

A lot of the statistics on running costs are a bit odd, in that the air temp and house temp are easy to manipulate - you ideally need to be able to compare oil heating with the same parameters (including same level of insulation). So if you're comparing you need to be careful.

In terms of carbon dioxide emissions, the pump itself uses electric so obviously that needs to be factored in, as does the CO2 cost of upgrading radiators/ changing flooring /getting rid of old system /redecorating afterwards /etc.

As I said, this may well have changed now as this was what I remember from about 18 months - 2 years ago.

 

We went for oil in the end (a condensing combi boiler). The other thing you could think about is wood-fired heating system, so long as you have plenty space to store the wood, of course!

 

 

Since we have already had a purely wood heating system and you cannot go away in bad weather as its out and the pipes would freeze we are looking into other systems and hubby now says ground heat pump but I think its expensive but keeps the house at the same temp and you can put it into the water radiators I am told. I just want oil!!

[chickenanne]

A freind of my parents' has a ground source heat pump, and it's meant to be fabby. Becuase the soil stays at a more stable temperature than the air it's more effiecient than the air-source ones. We strongly cosidered it, but we don't have enough space outside to lay the pipes horizontally, and drilling down the way to lay them (basically in big holes) was too expensive for us. Am not sure if you can pipe the water through radiators or not. But I think you do run it 24/7 - same reason as you would for air source pump.

Oil does have the massive advantage of being hassle free - basically just standard central heating.

[Lesley]

We're still looking at ground source as our plumber says a lot is happening now and it will soon be more viable to run. The fact that you can drill downwards now is good for us as a lot of our land is landfill (previously a quarry) Apparently the drilling costs are becoming cheaper all the time.

 

Air source can be noisy so it would pay to do some research on that.

 

We moved from a house that had oil and we were glad to get away from the expense - we have LPG and underfloor heating here - still expensive though and we supplement it with the multi fuel in the lounge. We may change the LPG boiler to a multifuel/woodburner to run the underfloor heating and water heating.

[Blackrocksrock]

Yes its the downwards drilling that we would be interested in and I have multifuel central heating at the moment but it does not stay in and as I get older I would really like to get up in the mornings to a warm house and not have to start and resurrect a colling boiler fire - especially if its windy then the house can be warm at 3 am and cold by 7p.m.!!

I really need something like the ground source and I have heard it can be used with existing rads so hopefully with a grant of 30% it should become more viable in the future.

[Lesley]

Yes, we're waiting for it all to become a bit more viable.

 

We have planted lots of ash trees to use as fuel so we're looking at long term......and the plumber told me of another customer of his who found a wood pelletting machine to make pellets for his gravity feed boiler I'm still investigating...........

[prudance]

We have an air pump and solar panels, all installed last summer. If you can use your garden instead - I would. We didn't have that option as you really need a field unless you go down, but even then - you still need a largeish area nowhere near any pipework. Our guy did warn us of some installations in the garden where the pipework was put to close, the ground never warmed up properly in a cold summer and then the ground completely froze in the winter/spring causing a lot of damage to the garden, grass, plants, and trees.

 

The air pump and solar panels that we have heat water that goes into a heat store in the garage. That heat store then runs our radiators, underfloor heating in kitchen, and our hot water. The heat pump nearly managed throughout the winter. OH had to forgo his long hot showers and baths unless he put the oil boiler on for 15 mins. Couldn't handle the really cold weather snap. We had to fire up the old oil boiler then too.

 

The air pump and ground pump won't lift the temp of your water as high as a boiler. Because of this (and the ground floor of the house had been gutted anyway due to a flood) we didn't replace our radiators. We put in Thermaskirt. This is designed to work with the lower temperature water that you get from a heat pump. I have to say that though the skirting doesn't look quite as good as the brochure, and I miss having radiators to dry things on, it does the job nicely. Our old Victorian house was either cold or we had the heating on full blast and were hot. We're no longer hot unless the fire is on, but we're at a more comfortable and mild temperature throughout with fewer cold spots.

 

In theory we could apply for the goverment grant, but unlike in Ireland, it's peanuts at the moment and you have to prove that you have got nice thick loft insulation etc. to qualify. It basically pays for the loft insulation and other stuff you'd probably have to do to get it!

 

A last thought on the air pump. It's not pretty. It looks like a large air con unit outside. We are trying to screen it, but you can't restrict the air flow. Obviously, not whisper quiet either, but I have found that during the summer when we're outside or windows are open, it's not on much because the air temp is so high and our heat needs are low. In the winter when it's on a lot, the windows are closed most of the time and we don't notice it even though it's close to the house. Good luck choosing, it's a minefiled!!

[Lesley]

Thanks for the info. P - it certainly is a minefield

 

The plumber who does our LPG boiler service is coming out to do a survey for us to work out the best way to go. We need to sort out the zoning for our underfloor heating first - the manifold is there bit it was never zoned when the people who built the house finished lots of the work themselves ( ) - I hate having a warm bedroom.