Bluebell2009 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Hello! This is our first year beekeeping, and when last week we went to check the hives we noticed that one of them had a few (10-12) dead bees in the entrance. We've been feeding this hive since we got it as a nuc quite late in the season, and didn't have all the combes full of honey for the winter. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 You need to supply a few more details - like hive type, colony size, number of frames of stores, the rest of the frames, dummy boards, dividing boards, floor type, ventilation arrangements, insulation, colony health and possibly etc., before anyone can more than guess at the possible/probable risks. If these were inside the entrance and the hive were a beehaus, I would be concerned. Similarly if it were a National with an entrance block, I might be concerned, but if a full-width entrance, not so. Saying that, any bees dead inside the hive may not be a good sign. Drones are likely to have been exited some time ago unless the colony was likely to supercede late in the season There will always be exceptions to the generalities (or even rules). Regards, RAB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 My hive has only just kicked out the drones last week, and someone else on here said the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melbourne12 Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 My hive has only just kicked out the drones last week, and someone else on here said the same. Same for our hives. The late good weather seems to have prolonged the brood season, and so the drones have only recently been ejected. We've been finding a couple on the varroa boards where they've crept for shelter. I'd be a bit worried about any significant number of dead bees actually in the entrance, though, which suggests that the colony isn't getting rid of the dead bees effectively. If they're still being fed, then the problem won't be starvation. Presumably, Bluebell2009, you cleared the dead bees away? If it doesn't recur, then it was "just one of those things". If it does, then I'd be inclined to wait for a relatively warm day (like last Sunday) and have a quick look in the hive to check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebell2009 Posted November 19, 2009 Author Share Posted November 19, 2009 I will go an check them out this weekend again. The bees are in a national hive, with 11 frames, with quite a large amount of storage. We've been feeding them though, since we got them as a nuc in August. We use solid floors, and we left the crown board in it. Do you suggest I should keep feeding them still? Actually, we didn't treat this hive for verroa since their storages were too little when it was time to start the treatment with Apiguard, and we were suggested not to. Since it was a nuc we were told that the amounts of verroa would be not considerable. Thanks for the tips! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Is the entrance full width? Is it narrow or full height? Is a mouse guard fitted? Is the crownboard sealed or are there open feed/clearer holes? I would be surprised, if the entrance is wide and open, that the bees would not have carried the corpses away, so I suspect you may have a mouseguard fitted. I am careful not too fit a mouseguard while the bees are still active for that very reason. Always a compromise of when to do it and climate change is making timings much more variable. One always checks, throughout the inactive part of the winter, for dead bees blocking the entrance. It is a good idea to have an insulated dummy next to the entrance, if one is needed, so any dead bees fall further back and do not so easily clog the entrance. If the colony is weak you should consider reducing the air space above and around the bees, by fitting sealed dividers, effectively wintering as a nucleus, feeding fondant as a regular top-up. I only overwinter strong colonies. As for varroa, unless you know the loading from regular mite-fall counts or effective treatment you may have no idea of how many there might be. Bees are opportunists and will rob, or help rob another colony failing due to a heavy varroa infestation) or some of the bees from an infested colony might drift to your hive, if local. That could mean a very rapid increase in mites in the autumn. When I was using solid floors I always (as an inexperienced beekeeper, then) seemed to have dificulty with gauging ventilation needs for colonies and think I lost some for damp and some for too much draught. OMFs seem so much more reliable, but there again mine are now all on extra deep brood frames, equivalent to a brood and a half with a standard National, and bee numbers are good. Regards, RAB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebell2009 Posted November 19, 2009 Author Share Posted November 19, 2009 Hmmm... Actually not, the entrance is reduced, but we didn't fit a mouseguard since we have the hive in a very high stand (like 1 m high) and it is quite unlikely that anything will get in there. The crown board has holes but these are covered now. One is covered with the feeder, and the otherone with some wood. I agree we should have done a mite count and treated the colony! We regreted this afterwads. However we will do an oxalic acid treatment at the end of the year. Hopefully this will help. We do not use varroa floors, but I think next year we will install them. So basically, in terms of ventilation there is not much of it right now, just through the entrance. Our frames are positioned perpendicular to the entrance. We will defenetely pop down on Saturday and check again. Just a question, I pressume it is better to stop feeding the bees now, isn't it? And if the weather is mild, we could have a look at the hive inside for a short time without stressing the bees much? Am I right saying this? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebell2009 Posted November 19, 2009 Author Share Posted November 19, 2009 I had missed what you mentioned on feeding.... so, you suggest to feed over winter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 I said "If the colony is weak you should consider reducing the air space above and around the bees, by fitting sealed dividers, effectively wintering as a nucleus, feeding fondant as a regular top-up." I was referring to the strength of the colony and not knowing what you call strong or weak makes it difficult to make a judgement. As I said I would not try to overwinter a weak colony 'per normal' but treat as a nuc. Even my nucs would be on 14 x 12 frames and likely have a super over. The important thing is keeping them dry while not allowing too much heat loss. The cluster volume:surface area ratio worsens as the cluster size diminishes. It is not a linear relationship. If the coony is strong but the brood not filled to the outside frames I would replace these empty frames with insulated dummies as the outer frames of stores affords 2 functions apart from food. They reduce free air volume and increase insulation values. It would be far better to solicit local practical advice from an experienced beekeeper, as geograhical location, site topography and subjective descriptions can all create differing assessments of the actual situation. Regards, RAB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebell2009 Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 Thanks for the advice. I have contacted a couple of experience bee keepers from the region and hopefully they can come and have a look at it. We visited yesterday, and found a few more dead bees in the entrace. Regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
