My eco solution to rat problems

[FreakSoupAccident]

Maybe this is me being green. I hope so.

 

I've had my bees for just under a month. They came on five frames with a queen which I understand had been introduced shortly before they were delivered to me. We put the bees in the beehaus and put two empty foundation frames beside the five that they came on. OK so far!

 

So now the issues. I can't find the queen anymore. I spent a good 25 minutes scouring frames today and just cannot find her. I'm not seeing much evidence of laying either. There an awful lot of honey - mostly uncapped - in the brood frames. I'm not sure if this is me being a novice and not being able to find her - or if there is something wrong? Last weekend I saw couple of bees at the entrance - one appeared to be bigger and fatter than the other - and was dead. I think it's too small to be the queen but it was the same colour as the queen I was given. I'm beginning to wonder whether it WAS the queen. I've uploaded the video - it's here:

 

Something else I'm a little concerned about - the two brood frames I added when the bees were delivered have not been touched - no work has taken place on them at all. Is this normal? The weather has been good and there is no shortage of bees in the hive and there's plenty of flying activity.

 

Any input appreciated

Ta

[Olly]

I never saw the queen in my first year of beekeeping, but I knew she was there because there were eggs, larvae and capped brood. Can you see any of those? If you can, then the queen is there (or has been there within a few days). If you can't then I think you may have a problem.

 

Normally if the queen dies/disappears the bees will raise another - have you seen any queen cells on inspection?

How do the bees seem on inspection - are they calm, or do they seem a bit aggressive?

 

The best way to find out is to insert a test comb - a frame of eggs/brood from another hive, if they are queenless then they will raise another. Do you have anyone in your local bee keeping group who might be able to help with this?

 

There are more experienced beekeepers on here who can probably offer more suggestions, but my queen disappeared and I've just had to do exactly this.

[Guest]

EEEK - Sorry, I don't think I'm going to be any help on this one either I'm afraid... Was the Queen marked at all?

 

Hopefully oliver90owner or v8landy will log on at some stage, they are both experienced and I'm sure they'd be able to advise you...

 

Hope she turns up soon

[Guest]

I think Olly has answered this one quite satisfactorily.

 

I just hate those nuc suppliers who simply introduce a queen and sell it on immediately! They should at least check out the laying pattern of the new queen. I will say that I have never bought in a nuc of any description - ever.

 

Yes, the bees can do silly things and reject a queen. More often (c/f a nuc which originally raised the resident queen) these 'short term' colonies can supercede or worse, which may be the case here. Can't be sure, but that test frame is a must before laying workers take over, if the criteria in Olly's post are making it look bleak. All except temperament - they may be very quiet because they are hopelessly queenless.

 

Of course, the queen can be killed by a novice beekeeper, but they will normally build emrgency queen cells, if that is the case and there would be evidence of that.

 

If there is no queen, you should be contacting the supplier as they should be correcting the situation. You have potentially lost 5 weeks development time after possibly paying a premium for an early colony, expected a quality queen in a quality product, etc, etc. It happens, but too often for some.

 

Regards, RAB

[Olly]

why, thanks RAB

 

That's interesting about temperament, I'd been told that queenless bees will 'roar' when you open the hive. Mine weren't doing that, but they were stinging without any provocation, I had three in the last six weeks or so (including one on the face ) - I didn't realise it could also make them go quiet.

[FreakSoupAccident]

Thanks for your replies folks.

 

When I had my lessons a while back the bees I inspected were very excitable. By contrast, my bees are really really calm and hardly need smoking. Interesting RAB refers to this. Now I'm really worried.

 

If I'm honest I don't want to go to my local BKA (rather not say who they are) and ask them to help. They are a trifle stuffy and I got a few askance looks at my first few meetings when I told them I had a beehaus. I just know if I talk to them about this situation they will lambast me for not using a 'proper' hive.

 

Things certainly don't seem right. They really should have started drawing out the virgin frames by now, shouldn't they? I assume if there is no queen then the colony will just die off.

 

I cling to the hope that it is of course, entirely possible that I've screwed up my inspection and there is brood there - or I've mistaken capped honey for capped brood. After all, I spent most of my time looking for the queen. Are there any good pictures on the www to compare my frames to?

 

I will contact my supplier (ahem, Omlet!) to see if there's anything they can suggest. If the queen has died or been killed by the colony then it is really disappointing. I've been waiting to get started on this 'project' for a while and to fail after a few weeks is pretty "Ooops, word censored!"py.

 

Ta

[FreakSoupAccident]

BTW did you check my youtube post? Is the dead bee too small for the queen? It is certainly the same colour as the one shown to me when the frames were put in.

 

Thanks

[Guest]

Olly,

 

There is a subtle difference here possibly. Immediate realisation that the queen is absent, and hopeless queenlessness. In the latter case perhaps demoralised is a good term, like when wasps are overwhelming a small or failing colony.

 

FreakSoupAccident,

 

I didn't say they would be calm, but quite a possibility if long term queenless, as the colony starts to dwindle.

 

The beehaus is simply another beetainer, especially at this time of the year. Tell them it is a Dartington type hive! Your problem is with your nucleus colony, not the hive.

 

You have not necessarily failed. It should be your immediate supplier who is directly resonsible to you, but they may try to divert you to their supplier, who has no real obligation to you, only to their customer (your supplier).

 

First, though, you are showing your inexperience if you are unable to discern capped brood from honey, and are not sure if there is open brood and/or eggs present. These are the basic skills in beekeeping.

 

Your vid is inconclusive but looks like another worker of different colour and so possibly a different strain. It might be a small dead queen, but I would have to be convinced......

 

Regards, RAB

[Olly]

Afraid I couldn't tell from the youtube post, but if the queen is laying, then as well as capped brood you should see pearly white larvae, and eggs. Must admit I find it hard to see eggs, they are so small, but larvae are easily spotted.

If you go to Google Images and search for bee larvae or capped brood, you'll find some pictures.

 

Whilst I understand what you're saying about your local BKA, I think I would really have struggled without mine, and the monthly meetings are very helpful.

 

I suspect that yes, you will get some good-natured teasing for having bought a Beehaus, and they will love to criticise it, but that doesn't mean they won't be willing to help out, you'll just have to grin and bear it. And this could happen to anyone buying a nuc, the fact that the queen has gone missing is nothing to do with the Beehaus. I'd really recommend joining your local group to anyone starting to keep bees, because the first year or two are very challenging to a beginner. Reading a book can only take you so far!

[OXFORDBEE]

Unfortunately your video is quite clear: There is a worker and a dead queen.

 

Good luck...

[FreakSoupAccident]

OK so I made another inspection today. Yesterday I was pretty focussed on simply finding the queen but today I wanted to pay far more attention to what was on the frames.

 

Guess what? Everything looks pretty normal. There is brood below the capped honey - just like Ted Hooper says there should be. I even loused off a shot with my camera: http://www.flickr.com/photos/42927735@N05/4739950112/ so now you can all tell me I was being completely paranoid at not finding the queen.

 

So.... if the video is the original queen - then the workers should recognise this and raise another, yes? I didn't see any queen cells today - maybe there will be some in a fortnight.

 

Any further comments appreciated. Thanks for all your input so far.

[Guest]

Everything wil definitely not be 'pretty normal' if there is no open brood, or eggs in cells!

 

No eggs/young brood (< 3days old), no queen cells (ever), if no queen!

 

RAB

[v8landy]

 

They came on five frames with a queen which I understand had been introduced shortly before they were delivered to me.

 

 

I spent a good 25 minutes scouring frames today and just cannot find her. Ta

People need to understand what they are buying, the current bubble of beekeeping is creating a cash cow for some VERY poor nucs been sold off to new keepers.

 

Sorry to say, looks like you do not have a queen. The sealed brood is just that, no eggs = no queen.

 

I suspect your queen never even started laying and was killed off before she had chance to start laying hence why not even any queen cells.

 

People are so focused on finding the queen, yes it is nice to see her, but a few minutes spent watching the hive entrance can tell you more than having the hive ripped aprt for 25 minutes.

 

An inspection of an 11 frame hive should take no more than 5 minutes! And if you don’t see the queen, fine, but have you seen fresh vertical eggs? A good laying pattern, and obviously no sign of TRUE queen cells and buy that I mean with a grub in and royal jelly.