MaxBaz Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 Up until Saturday, the girls free ranged in my unplanted vegetable patch, but this weekend the new run was unveiled - which they love. Unfortunately - so does Mr Rat - and he and his family are nesting UNDERNEATH the patio area that the cube is permanently situated and which has the run immediately in front of. I don't think I have any option but to get the Council pest guy in, as we live right by woodland we normally get rats about once a year - but not normally where they are this time. I can't risk putting traps in the run - but am worried about what happens once the rats have taken the bit and left their dropping - which could presumably kill the girls? I presume that the rats can't get into the cube and am careful not to leave any food about - but what can I do to protect the girls in the run? Comments advice appreciated (Egultine - words of wisdom PLEASE!) Thanks Cathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 I have put my Eglus on paving slabs to prevent rats tunnelling into the run. They have made several attempts. I always get the hose pipe out and drench any holes they have made, and then fill them as best I can. I have tried traps with no success whatsoever. I am always concerned about catching other creatures anyway. You can get live traps but if successful with one, you have to decide how to deal with a disease carrying and angry animal. Personally I don't think that taking vermin for a ride in the car and depositing it on someone else's doorstep is acceptable.....and it might well bite when released. I'm not sure that I'd risk it. Drowning it isn't an option...as it is against the law and there would be penalties if caught. I leave bait boxes about ....I have 6 dotted about the garden and I replenish them every so often. There is usually evidence that the bait has been eaten. I'd be inclined to get the hose pipe out and flush them out from under the patio and fill the gaps if you can. Around the garden, it is a good idea to be careful with your compost heap....they often live in those, or dine there. It is probably best not to put food items on it, or at least if you do, cover it with a good shovelful of earth to stop them being tempted by the smell. I had some living in mine a couple of years ago. I got the trusty hosepipe out and flushed it out. About half a dozen of the blighters scattered. Try to eliminate places where they can hide. If there are any little areas of accumulated matter, clear them away if you can. It is unlikely that an adult rat would get through the weldmesh of the run at night...although a mouse might! For the time being, I would bring the hens food in at night. You can sometimes employ the services of a chap with either a ferret or a couple of terriers. Ask in your local smallholding or equine suppliers....they will know if there is anyone in your area. It is a good idea to store hen food in metal bins as rats can gnaw through plastic, and will contaminate the food. I'm afraid the rat problem is an ongoing one, there are times when there are no signs of an infestation whatsoever though. Rats will have been in your vicinity anyway, they just become more obvious when you have hens. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxBaz Posted April 14, 2008 Author Share Posted April 14, 2008 Thanks Egluntine - last year the rats were behind the compose heap, the year before in the garage and the year before that the little bliters managed to somehow get into the airing cupboard!!!!! Will do what you suggest - re putting water in the holes then closing them up. The cube is up on stone slabs, but the rats have tunnelled underneath. Couldn't understand why our springer spaniel was digging around that area as run was being constucted - now I know. If I STILL don't have any joy with your suggestions, will call in the rat man but ask him to put the bait boxes far away from the run. I only feed the girls inside their cube - apart from the odd few bits of cabbage which disappears within seconds. If I go ahead and put VERY hot water on the patio to clean it on Saturday as an earlier post I made this morning, that will peeve off the rats as well I guess. Got my first egg on Saturday! Only Edwina is laying - other three still stuffing themselves with food but nothing coming out the other end.... Cathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 We had rats last year who were playing in the chicken feeders. I absolutely cannot stand rats and immediately phoned the council. They sent men out that day who laid down the big green rat boxes. They came twice that week and once each week after that until they had got rid of them - unbelievably helpful! They knew exactly where to put them so that our springer spaniel and chickens couldn't access them. I wouldn't hesitate about phoning them - they really know their stuff! Hope things improve Sheila Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachel m Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 thanks from me too eglutine, we noticed a rat about yesterday, and i was going to write a post about it. put a trap out yesterday and this morning there is no sign of the trap, i'm not sure what that means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FruitandNutCake Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 Was that a spring trap? If it has gone, it usually means it is still attached to the half alive rat! I had that problem with mouse traps in the house - i'd hear it snap about 3 in the morning, followed by torturous banging as the mouse tried to get out of it. I guess i'll have the same problem when I get my chickens, but the council now charge about £40-£60 for the service. I still have the large metal rat bait box from the last time - so will just stock it with bait (obtained from garden centre) in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachel m Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 yeah, it was a spring trap, some black plastic claw thing, my hubby is going to look over the back fence on a ladder into the woodland behind for any trace. we just used peanut butter as bait, as read somewhere this works well, and i guess they went for it. i have told the girls that they need to try to eat more tidily if they don't want to have horrible visitors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 When I suggested getting the Council folk in, I didn't realise that they would charge you. In our area in Scotland all that is free! Sheila Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FruitandNutCake Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 It used to be free in our area - but unfortunately they now charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallina Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 Bait boxes from the council are free in Oxford too, but this has a down side. There is now a superbreed of rats in Oxford that is resistant to poison. (They were first found in Hampshire.) I find rat traps very effective. I have wooden compost frames with lids, and the only creatures that go in them (as far as I know) are rats. Certainly I don't catch anything except rats. But you have to be careful with these traps, as they are very strong and could break your fingers. I feel that traps are more humane than poison, but I use both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxBaz Posted April 14, 2008 Author Share Posted April 14, 2008 Interestingly, my job as managing tenants in shopping centres actually means I deal with these sort of things - but commercially. So after phoning the council had a word about what I should do with my commercial contact. He suggested getting the council rat man to put DUSTING POWDER in the runs themselves under the patio, then blocking them with something along the lines of a special poison-bar (it looks like a bar of soap) and then covering the whole run up. In theory, the rat will have to ingest some of the bar as it is blocking its route out. It was suggested NOT to put bait boxes in the run if there is any chance that the rats dropping will be eaten by the chickens and the secondary poisoning would harm/kill them. Will let you know the latest once the Council have called me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 I never put my bait boxes in the run...they are dotted about the garden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxBaz Posted April 17, 2008 Author Share Posted April 17, 2008 Well the Council rat man arrived today and he put a huge bait box in an area beside the run and near where the rat was sighted. He didn't use pellets but the poison bar which was suggested. He said that there was no problem with secondary poisoning (unless I had a pet hawk) - so even if the girls do manage to accidently eat some poison-droppings they won't be poisoned. He's coming back next week to check it. Took Egluntines advise and throughly washed the run holes - and I mean THOROUGHLY - and blocked them up with flint/bricks etc. Girls didn't help by jumping on their grub in their desperation to go back into the run for a few more hours and spilling all the pallets between the paving stones..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tara.F Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 mr rentokill man, on a visit to my mother in law's shop gave me a great tip. He says the one thing rats will not even try to chew through (they can chew through concrete you know ) is wire wool. tiny pieces of it break off and irritate the very sensitive nose area. Drives them insane apparently. Anyway, once they've encountered it, they never go near it again. worth a thought for stuffing into flooded out holes.....cheap too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pudding hill Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 Use poison sparingly as immunity to all types is now rife. Ask a local chap with a terrier to look at the rats. Remove the blade from a chain saw, connect the exhaust to a hose pipe, insert it into the rat hole. The rats will come out and be snapped up by the terriers. Those who stay put will be gassed. Either that or get a good multi shot air rifle with a red filter lamp and shoot them at night when they come out to feed. Both are humane and certain methods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 (edited) Use poison sparingly as immunity to all types is now rife. The advice I was given by our rentokil was to use an adequate amount as a half hearted dose can lead to sub lethal dosing which is the factor responsible for tolerance developing. I'm not sure that the rather drastic methods you describe are advisable for the amateur. Edited April 19, 2008 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pudding hill Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 Listen, if you have rats you need to take a drastic course of action or learn to live with them. I know what I would rather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 If that response was in reply to my post, I'm not sure I care for the abasive tone. The methods you describe have the potential to be very dangerous in inexperienced hands and it is ill judged advice when there are simpler and safer alternatives available. Furthermore, what you suggest is illegal, as you are not using the approved fumigant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxBaz Posted April 20, 2008 Author Share Posted April 20, 2008 I completely agree with Egluntine - "drastic action" is one thing - inhumane and dangerous and illegal is another entirely kettle of fish. Issues like this should be dealt with by the correct methods without endangering anything else. The Council rat man will be back on Thursday to check the bait box and either remove it or leave it for another week - for the sake of £30 I'm far more comfortable with this - although I think that a little bit of water in the run to make them uncomfortable and having them filled up didn't go amiss either.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pudding hill Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 These are both legal and humane methods. Carbon monoxide is an a fumigant which has been approved by DEFRA and all local authorities as regards the control of rats. They are both very safe for the applicant. Your terrier is not likely to bite you, you will not gas yourself unless in a confined space, and it is up to you whether or not you shoot yourself with your air rifle. Do you think that companies like Rentokil might have a vested interest in posioning rats? They make millions of pounds each year by pouring poison into the eco system and the food chain. They cause untold suffering in under baited traps and consequent acquired immunity. Has the rat population diminished over the last twenty years? No, conservative estimates say that it has at least doubled. At a local and individual level we can take action by taking what you describe as 'drastic action'. If we ensure that we eradicate vermin in our homes, in our gardens and on our land without recourse to filling the coffers of FTSE listed companies or local authorities then we are making progress. Don't put your hand in your pocket, take action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 These are both legal and humane methods. Carbon monoxide is an a fumigant which has been approved by DEFRA and all local authorities as regards the control of rats. They are both very safe for the applicant. Your terrier is not likely to bite you, you will not gas yourself unless in a confined space, and it is up to you whether or not you shoot yourself with your air rifle. Do you think that companies like Rentokil might have a vested interest in posioning rats? They make millions of pounds each year by pouring poison into the eco system and the food chain. They cause untold suffering in under baited traps and consequent acquired immunity. Has the rat population diminished over the last twenty years? No, conservative estimates say that it has at least doubled. At a local and individual level we can take action by taking what you describe as 'drastic action'. If we ensure that we eradicate vermin in our homes, in our gardens and on our land without recourse to filling the coffers of FTSE listed companies or local authorities then we are making progress. Don't put your hand in your pocket, take action. Tosh. Your aggressive attitude is not appreciated or in keeping with this forum. We often have full and frank discussions, but do not stoop to unpleasantness which verges on abuse. The rat population has increased mainly because of local authorities reducing the frequency of bin emptying and because of the chuck it out of the car window attitude of certain sections of society. The fumigant approved by Defra is Aluminium Phosphide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallina Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 Pudding Hill is right about one thing, however: people are not taking action on rats seriously enough. When we had them under our rabbit hutch when I was a child, my father dug the nest out immediately and chopped the rats in half with his spade. In the 1950s, people had a much more robust attitude to pests. And the local council doesn't act quickly enough either: I usually have to wait a fortnight for a visit from the pest control man, which is why I use traps as well when I see rats. I know someone today (quite sane otherwise) who feed the rats in her garden.... I don't think it's fortnightly rubbish collection that is the problem: it is the people who leave sacks of wasted food in their gardens (often students) instead of using a bin. There is food everywhere all the time, even in the street where people have dumped the chips they can't manage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChickNic Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 Hello, Well, the rats do seem to be out in force don't they! As there is such a big discussion already going on, I thought I may as for opinions on what I hae done. You may remember that I posted on her a few weeks ago with a suspected case of squirrels tunnelling into the run. Many of you thought that it could be a rat, so I have taken some precautions just in case. This weekend, we bought four paving slabs, which I dug into the gound and put the eglu on. The run is still on the ground as I they love scratching about and I didn't want to break my back slabbing the whole area! It looks like it will work, but I guess time will tell. I also bought the following rat killer box from B&Q. It has a round hole at each end, and what looks like blue soap bars made of grain inside. Is this what others use? http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav/nav.jsp?action=detail&fh_secondid=9410945&fh_view_size=6&fh_location=%2f%2fcatalog01%2fen_GB&fh_search=rat+killer&fh_eds=ß&fh_refview=search&ts=1208786257835&isSearch=true I am a bit concerned that rat poo will kill my girls now! I only put it down yesterday, and I intend on moving out of harms way when I let them out their run (it is at the back of the eglu). Is this precaution enough? I'm a bit wary as it does specifically say deadly to poultry on the box. Anyone used this before?? Thanks, Nicky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rona Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 Got my first egg on Saturday! Only Edwina is laying - other three still stuffing themselves with food but nothing coming out the other end.... I bet there's plenty of poo coming out the other end Sorry, I know its a week ago since you said that and hopefully you're getting eggs by now, but couldn't help it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxBaz Posted April 21, 2008 Author Share Posted April 21, 2008 Got well and truly told off by Caroline (the biggest and fattest) when I interrupted here at 6.10 this morning opening up the door for them to the cube run - she was in the nesting box (in total darkness trying to lay) ..... The resultant egg was small - but perfect! She really squarked at me and made her feelings perfectly clear. Edwina lays at 11.30 - after breakfast and she is much calmer. Now it's just the other two that have to earn their keep.... and yes there is a lot of poo......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
