dave2500 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Hi people. I have just registered, although have often read the forums. I am in need of some urgent help.… I have 3 hens and they really are pets. They come indoors and will jump up on my belly and go to sleep.. Trouble is with one of them. I will try and give as much info as possible. She is about 14 months old. And has no health issues I know of. She is fed, layers mash, layers pellets, mixed corn, access to oyster shell, has baked crushed egg shells in their food, has fresh corn, boiled potato peelings etc etc .. Always has 25ml apple cider vinegar per 1 litre of their drinking water 8 days ago she laid an egg with no shell. I say shell less as it was just a membrane. I thought it could be a one off as the weather has been scorching. However the next day we had another one. This time not even egg shaped, but more egg with a long umbilical cord. I crushed up a load of oyster shell to dust and coated some titbits in it and bought her indoors away from the other two chickens. (No difference) It was now i noticed she wasn't actually eating her pellets/mash.. She would happily eat potato and fresh corn, but wouldn't touch the important feeds of the day. I have now had her isolated for 6 further days and every single day we have had the same, an egg consisting of membrane only and a long umbilical cord. She is still refusing to eat her proper food, so she starves until the evening when I give in and feed her potato peelings to ensure she at least gets something. I have also made up the special foods, of pro-biotic yoghurt, grated apple, grated carrot, egg yolk, cod liver oil, honey etc... She wont touch it. I took her to the vet 2 days ago, and whilst a really nice vet she said she didn't have much experience with chickens so gave her a vitamin injection, and said lets hope this does the trick. If I lose this girl I am going to be gutted. Can anyone help with advise or ideas as to what the problem could be? Also she is starting to look a little pale, although she is still very active and has the run of the house.. (I just have to watch her all the time to get the poops).. Onto the poop... some stools are good texture, nice white wisp, others can be very runny but not noticed anything really untoward. Hope I have included enough information, and thanks again in advance for any help. Cheers Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I think her diet could be contributing to the problem, Dave. Harden your heart and withhold all treats. The more of those she has, the less nutritious food she will want to eat. She won't starve. You could try making her pellets into a delicious porridge by adding water....they usually enjoy that. A soluble calcium supplement such as ZolcalD might be beneficial. Welcome to the forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave2500 Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 Good advise... And yesterday arrived a tin of shell max calcium supplememt. I have added that to her water, and she is starting that today.. Thus far though, she is even refusing to drink.. (I know this is naughty), but to ensure she got someting inside her and some water, I broke a slice of bread into bits and dropped them in the water.. Today starts the harsh regime... NO treats... There will water with cider apple vinegar and shell max in it. And a bowl of half layers mash and half layers pellets with crushed baked egg shells in it.. Nothing else at all.. I hope it works.!!!!!! Cheers Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ain't Nobody Here Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Welcome to the forum, Dave. Sounds like you're doing all you possibly can . I hope Egluntine's advice makes a difference . I have one hen who is constantly laying softies at the moment so I can sympathise . Have you taken a photo of one of these odd eggs? It might be useful for others to see (if a bit ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budgies Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Sounds like you've got the best advice there, Dave. If she refused to drink, tough love, syringe some water down her throat. You can even mix her layers mash into a very soft porridge and do the same with a bit of that. Sometimes doing that stimulates their appetite a bit, and then they're interested in eating again! Good luck, do let us know how she goes, won't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave2500 Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 Thanks for advise so far... Read somewhere that on average a laying hen needs 160gms of feed. So this morning I measured it out.. Missus called me a little earlier to say that she had been sticking her beak into it.. Mainly splattering it everywhere but eating the occaisional bit.. Will update with any change, but also found this whilst searching the internet which I thought was a good refernce source so have saved a copy on my pc.. http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/PS029 Thanks again. Cheers Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budgies Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Glad to hear that she's trying a bit of her food Dave, good luck! Thanks for sharing that article - it's very interesting. Interesting that in the US Northern Fowl Mite is their no.1 parasite and Red Mite doesn't get a mention. Differences in location I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave2500 Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 Just laid number 9 of the shell-less eggs. She hunched herself up in the front room, fluffed her feathers up and stayed like it for 3 whole hours.. I am gutted.. She doesnt look comfortable , but makes no noise, and the minute it was over with she came and jumped straight up on me, and nestled down. Spoke to a woman today who knows shed loads about chickens, and she has suggested maybe she is getting ready to moult.. I am looking for every possible reason I can not to have her put down.. Not that I want her put down, I will do whatever is necessary to save her, but dont want to think of the poor girl in pain... That would be ten times worse.. She is starting to drink now, and if anything I thought a bit of colour had returned to her cheeks today.. Cheers Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budgies Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I know you say she has no health problems that you're aware of but I'm wondering, Dave, has she been wormed recently? I'm just thinking that if she's very low because she has picked up worms they will affect everything. Flubenvet is the most recommended wormer on this forum. Laying soft shelled eggs do make them feel really unwell I'm afraid, but they usually perk up once they've laid the things. The calcium supplement will not only start to help her form the eggshell properly but will increase the contractions she experiences to expel the eggs, which may help her feel a bit better. Keep persisting with the layers porridge and calcium supplement, see how she is tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave2500 Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 Budgies, Excellent.... Thanks.... I have just actually posted on the section about worming them..And how i thought i was protecting them 100% with the addition on ACV in their drinking water.. Thats it... When I get home she is being wormed. At this stage I am prepared to try anything and everything... Unbelievable the way we get attached to these damned things... Thanks for all advise etc... Am hopeful I will get to the bottom of it.. If she does have worms, is there anything noticable to confirm this? ie: Should i be disecting her poops? Cheers Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budgies Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Dave, it's a great forum, it's like being a detective, you'll get to the bottom of it eventually!! Some people do see small worms (or even large ones) in their girls' poo, but many are invisible to our eyes, or the infestation isn't so bad that you can see them wriggling around. I wouldn't even bother worrying about trying to find a worm before worming. My vets do a service (no idea how much it costs) where they will take a fecal sample from each hen say twice a year (or more frequently if you prefer) and check for evidence of all parasites. I may consider this with my next girls. It means that you don't worm unless you have to. However, a bit of me also thinks maybe prevention is better than cure. Remember that ACV added to water, garlic added to water or food etc, are all old poultryman's tricks - they may be helpful with minimising infestations but they're not going to be as effective as Flubenvet used regularly. Personally I also wonder what effect it has on a hen to change the natural acidity balance of her digestive tract by using ACV. I don't like doing anything to my hens I don't have to - but that's just me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucky Mama Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Reading all the posts it sounds like very sound advise. From my limited chicken experience (have 4) I know that the more titbits they eat, the more likely they are to lay soft eggs or eggs without shells. My chooks free range all day and have free access to pellets, mash (with added grit) and a small amount of corn. They tend to only need 1 or 2 days of larger amounts of titbits to revert to soft eggs. They are also regularly wormed with Flubenvet. The only 'illness' that I have experienced was related to one of the girls trying to lay a softie. Looked so ill that we were heading off for antibiotics - thankfully she laid it on the patio while were looking for the car keys Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave2500 Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 Update... I started the three of them on flubenvet.. Beyonce (The ill one) didnt lay anything on Friday nor on Saturday... Then nothing right up until about 6pm yesterday when we had another soft shell less egg. We didnt get to it in time this time and she ate it.. Seriously considering getting her put down today.. Not because I want to, as it is the last thing on earth I want to do, but because she is clearly not herself and I am "guessing" she is in pain.. It really is going to hurt doing it, and I may get the missus to take her to vet.. She sleeps on my belly now.. We bring her in in the evening to keep her seperate from the others so we can monitor her food and drinking, and she makes a beeline straight for me.. Up on the sofa, up onto my belly, and nestles straight down.. This is going to be so so sad for me... But is it the fairest option? I really dont know... Is it the kindest option? Again, i don't know. Its a damned chicken I keep telling myself, but that doesn't make it easier. Cheers Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ain't Nobody Here Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 I would really think long and hard about the PTS option, to be honest . One of my girls has been laying softies or thin-shelled eggs for weeks although to be fair she doesn't look unwell or unhappy. You may find she just gets over it and starts laying normally again. Obviously if you really feel she's in pain or constant discomfort you have to make the right decision but I just wanted to say that a hen can lay regular softies without being actually "ill". Good luck, it must be really hard for you . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave2500 Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 Aint"Ooops, word censored!"odyhere.. Really??? If thats the case she stays.... But what would i do to keep an eye on her and stop the others eating the egg all the time? At the moment she is getting 24 hr attention and when she looks like she is going to drop it, we try and collect it from her. We missed it yesterday and she ate it.. Your post has helped me out a bit here, and I have just called the missus to tell her there may be a reprieve!!!!! Thanks.... (And feeling a lot happier knowing that perhaps... Just perhaps it may not signal the end of her). (Think I may keep bringing her indoors though now.... We sit down and watch tv together.. Cheers Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucky Mama Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 I would really think long and hard about the PTS option, to be honest . One of my girls has been laying softies or thin-shelled eggs for weeks although to be fair she doesn't look unwell or unhappy. You may find she just gets over it and starts laying normally again. Obviously if you really feel she's in pain or constant discomfort you have to make the right decision but I just wanted to say that a hen can lay regular softies without being actually "ill". Good luck, it must be really hard for you . I agree, our hen that laid softies looked close to death one day and very quickly returned to her old self. If you feel that she is in pain, you could talk to your vet about getting some pain relief for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 It won't do her any harm to eat the eggs, it will give her a bit of a protein boost.....as long as she doesn't start wanting to eat hard shelled eggs. The PTS option seems a little premature at this stage. I would cut out all treats and give her a source of Vit D3 such as cod liver oil added to her pellets. This will help with the absorption and metabolism of calcium This in turn should firm up the shells and also strengthen the contractions required to push the egg out. It is early days yet. The supplements need time to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
