Chucky Mama Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Can anyone talk me through a Top Bar Hive and it's merits (or not). I am curious about beekeeping, was thinking about a Beehaus but a bit too pricey me thinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beesontoast Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Can anyone talk me through a Top Bar Hive and it's merits (or not). I am curious about beekeeping, was thinking about a Beehaus but a bit too pricey me thinks. My pleasure. In essence, a top bar hive is a bee-friendly hollow log, made beekeeper-friendly by the addition of bars of wood on which bees build their combs. It is about as simple as a beehive can get, while providing for the possibility of inspection and a degree of 'management' - although we use that term with care, as we prefer to let the bees do most of the managing: they are better at it than us, having had several tens of millions of years more practice. By doing away with wooden frames and wax foundation, the bees are offered a space in which they can behave pretty much as they please, building comb to their own design rather than ours. Top bar hives are easy and cheap to build (about £25-£30 using new wood; considerably less if you can find suitable recycled material) and - unlike framed hives - do not require precise dimensions and can thus be made using hand tools if you prefer. Once in place, your beekeeping is all done on one level - which you can choose - and you never need to lift anything heavier than its roof, which can be made from thin ply. No honey boxes (supers) to lift, clean and store; no frames or foundation to buy; no extractor required - this is beekeeping at its simplest and most energy-efficient. You can read more and download free hive building plans from http://www.biobees.com Feel free to ask if you have more questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucky Mama Posted August 16, 2009 Author Share Posted August 16, 2009 It sounds so simple...what's the catch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beesontoast Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 It sounds so simple...what's the catch? None - unless you are a manufacturer of fancy beekeeping equipment, in which case you won't be so happy as you can't make any money out of top bar beekeepers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucky Mama Posted August 16, 2009 Author Share Posted August 16, 2009 If you have one which I am assuming that you do, could you post a photo? I am really interested. I have an elderly friend who has kept bees traditionally for ages and I would love to show him the design photos and to get his thoughts. I like the sound of it being natural and 'simple'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beesontoast Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Here are a couple we recently set up at Embercombe: Here's one I have used for 4 years: Natural comb with bees and brood: Top bar hive with roof off for inspection: Natural comb: Inside the hive: More pics here - http://www.biobees.com/photos.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucky Mama Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 (edited) Thank you so much! Do you mind me picking your brain from time to time? I am really interested. Edited August 17, 2009 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdcambs Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Can anyone talk me through a Top Bar Hive and it's merits (or not). Some beekeepers will say that a TBH is not much good for getting a honey crop, the same is sometimes said of Dartingtons (and therefore probably the beehaus), but then there is more than one reason for keeping bees. Extracting honey is another issue, as is ease of manipulation and/or comb collapse while inspecting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucky Mama Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 I am not a big honey consumer but would love to support the bee population and is I get a bit of honey then fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdcambs Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I am not a big honey consumer but would love to support the bee population and is I get a bit of honey then fine. In that case a top bar hive should do you well enough, and if you make it yourself to online plans it could also cost you next to nothing. (about £160 if bought online I think) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beesontoast Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Thank you so much! Do you mind me picking your brain from time to time? I am really intrested. No problem - I spend most of my time watching, thinking and talking about bees anyway! And yes, Peter is right that a TBH is likely to produce less honey than a framed hive, but I see that as a good thing: we only take what the bees can spare - we don't steal the lot and expect them to live on sugar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurmurf Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I suppose that would tie in nicely with a 'vegan' approach to bee keeping and lifestyle the frame is provided as a handy support for the bees, is that right? Like nesting boxes, bat boxes... that sort of thing? as both a carnivore and chook-keeper i've established myself as a 'user' I would want the honey, and they'd have to live off the sugar! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaggieMcHen Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I would want a bit of honey - so how much might they have to spare for me? I have ordered the Barefoot beekeeper book and downloaded the building instructions. Don't seem to be able to get the podcast to download, trouble registering I think. The small 'help the bees operations' seems much more my thing than a large beehive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beesontoast Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I would want a bit of honey - so how much might they have to spare for me? It varies from year to year according to the weather - and so does the yield from all hives. This year, you would have had plenty. Last year, little or none. I have ordered the Barefoot beekeeper book and downloaded the building instructions. That should keep you off the streets for a week then! Don't seem to be able to get the podcast to download, trouble registering I think. Thanks, will check it. The small 'help the bees operations' seems much more my thing than a large beehive. I would certainly like to see more people keeping bees in a small way, using chem-free methods, than big, commercial bee farms using who-knows-what treatments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenanne Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 The downsides with topbar hives, IMO are: You leave them alone (good thing) BUT that means you have very limited opportunity to spot foul brood (currently fairly rare in the UK due to it being reportable and rapidly treated). So... you do risk passing foul brood around your area. You leave them alone.... and do limited or no swarm control. This is fine, except that swarms can freak people out so is pretty unfair on any neighbours living or working near where you keep the hive, and if the bees decide to take up residence in cavity wall, chimney, etc, either of your or worse someone elses' property. Of course is does depend heavily on location as to how much of a prob either of these could be - in the right place they may well be totally irrelevant! Also - you don't get as much chance to observe them, again, becuase of the leaving-well-alone aspect, so you don't get the chance to learn so much about them. For some people this doesn't matter, or a TBH isn't the only hive they've ever had so this isn't so much of a factor. I'm only pointing out the catches with it here - they do have all the upsides pointed out above too.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beesontoast Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 The downsides with topbar hives, IMO are:You leave them alone (good thing) BUT that means you have very limited opportunity to spot foul brood (currently fairly rare in the UK due to it being reportable and rapidly treated). So... you do risk passing foul brood around your area. You leave them alone.... and do limited or no swarm control. This is fine, except that swarms can freak people out so is pretty unfair on any neighbours living or working near where you keep the hive, and if the bees decide to take up residence in cavity wall, chimney, etc, either of your or worse someone elses' property. Of course is does depend heavily on location as to how much of a prob either of these could be - in the right place they may well be totally irrelevant! Also - you don't get as much chance to observe them, again, becuase of the leaving-well-alone aspect, so you don't get the chance to learn so much about them. For some people this doesn't matter, or a TBH isn't the only hive they've ever had so this isn't so much of a factor. All the above are matters of management, not of the hive type. You can 'manage' bees in a TBH as easily - I would say more easily, as you never have to lift boxes - as in a National/Lang. That includes swarm control - very easy in a TBH. I would say that you get more opportunities to observe bees in a TBH than any framed hive, simply because you can observe them without wrecking their home. I can open both ends of my TBHs without most of the bees even noticing I am there. I can watch them going about their business for as long as I choose, wearing a T-shirt, and not have clouds of annoyed bees around me. Try that in a National! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenanne Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 As you can probably tell, I don't have a TBH! But my impression has always been that with a TBH you take an approach of minimal intrusion - i.e. you leave them well alone - I know the hive doesn't necessitate this, but I was under the notion that the management technique was very much a hands-off affair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beesontoast Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 As you can probably tell, I don't have a TBH! But my impression has always been that with a TBH you take an approach of minimal intrusion - i.e. you leave them well alone - I know the hive doesn't necessitate this, but I was under the notion that the management technique was very much a hands-off affair. As I said, management is a separate issue to hive design. Most 'natural beekeepers' using TBHs have a 'minimal management' policy, but it is not a requirement of using a TBH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucky Mama Posted August 18, 2009 Author Share Posted August 18, 2009 Well you have certainly given me plenty to think about. I am going to do some reading and will weigh up how suitable my garden is for bees and how a TBH will fit in with my idea of how I would like to keep bees. I will I know be back in the coming weeks with more questions. Thanks for the info so far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaggieMcHen Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Well you have certainly given me plenty to think about. I am going to do some reading and will weigh up how suitable my garden is for bees and how a TBH will fit in with my idea of how I would like to keep bees. I will I know be back in the coming weeks with more questions. Thanks for the info so far Me too - would now very much like to see one in action!!! Have visited many of the others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucky Mama Posted September 15, 2009 Author Share Posted September 15, 2009 I have just started to read The Barefoot Beekeeper, are you the author Beesontoast? I am not that far into it yet but I love it already. It welcomes a clueless potential beekeeper like me into the world of beekeeping. It is not patronising or full of jargon and it provides what I think is a balanced view of beekeeping. I do agree with some that have posted on the forum that the subject does appear rather daunting and perhaps a little unwelcoming but this book welcomes newcomers and as someone that doesn't 'do' this kind of book (I never read instructions ) I find it a compelling read. I don't know yet whether I will take the plunge into beekeeping but the ethos of keeping bees and harvesting what there is to spare appeals to me. I am not a big honey consumer at all but would like to do my bit if possible to support the bee and I feel that this book is giving me a good insight into how this can be acheived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaches Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Very interesting thread. I might have a look into the Barefoot Beekeeper book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daphne Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 I've discovered my swarm's original owner has an unused TBH.....I think our bees resented our clumsy interference over the summer period as they've gone back to be their original pussy cat selves since we took the honey and stopped inspecting the frames in the brood box, so although I know we need to keep an eye for disease, QCs and the like, I'm quite taken with the less is right approach as advocated by 2 senior beeks I know. I suppose a TBH could make a good 2nd hive to our national? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevedore Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Very interesting thread. I might have a look into the Barefoot Beekeeper book. You can find it here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Barefoot-Beekeeper-P-J-Chandler/dp/1409271145/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1253034355&sr=8-1 Or here: http://www.lulu.com/content/6369311 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beesontoast Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Thanks for your kind words, Chucky Mama - and yes, it is I. There is nothing wrong with being a beginner - we all have to begin somewhere. It's a fascinating journey and I'm sure you will enjoy it. It is easy to get confused and bamboozled by all the jargon, the hardware and the complicated manoevres indulged in by some experienced beekeepers, but beekeeping can also be simple and cheap, as I set out to prove. Good luck with it, and feel free to ask for help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
