hilda-and-evadne Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 According to this article, the chances of a total bee population collapse in 2012 are 7/10. Eek. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/6132571/2012-Will-it-be-the-end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it.html Scroll down to numbered paragraph 9. Thirty-six per cent of the commercial beehives in the US were lost to colony colapse disorder [CCD] in the winter of 2008. The syndrome, in which all of the worker bees in a colony die off suddenly, leaving nothing but a solitary queen wandering alone on empty frames, has spread to several countries in Europe already including France, Belgium, Italy, Portugal and Spain. Several causes of the disease have been suggested, including the almost universally present varroa mite, certain pesticides, Israeli acute paralysis virus, climate change and mobile phone broadcasts, but none have yet been proved to be the culprit. No cure has been found either, and as cases are reported in new countries the likelihood of a global pandemic leading to the extinction of the honeybee becomes a real possibility. Evidence: Apart from the loss of the honey crop, without the honeybee several crops key to human life would be wiped out, including the soya bean, cotton, brassicas, several kinds of nut including brazil nuts and almonds, grapes, apples and sunflowers, the source of a large proportion of the world's vegetable oil. Thirty per cent of the world's food is directly traceable to the action of bees. If they became extinct severe shortages, starvation, violence and riots would surely follow. Daily Telegraph 3 September 2009 Must look for a local bee keeping course. Anyone else in SE London thinking of starting bee keeping? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beesontoast Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 So that wouldn't be the usual poorly-researched, scaremongering media nonsense, then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 the media drive me nuts!!!! If we're not going to die from bird flu, swine flu, global warming or food shortages the loss of bees will finish us off! It's all so depressing, i can't bear to read it. I've seen people, granted on a small scale, using a rabbit's foot on a stick to tickle their plants to pollinate them. If the worst came to the worst then surely some sort of machinery designed to do a similar job could be invented? A big combine harvester with a big tickling stick or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenanne Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 I read somewhere (maybe New Scientist, maybe Scientific American (left behind by someone in Dad's holiday let)) that in some parts of China they do hand pollinate already, due to lack of bees. Not really feasible where people want a living wage and affordable food, I s'pose ... But it's not just honey bees that pollinate. Am also not convinced they will die out in 4 years time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..lay a little egg for me Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 A big combine harvester with a big tickling stick or something? I just love that image, Poet! I think you should start work designing one...would love to see you pitch your idea to the Dragon's Den! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hilda-and-evadne Posted September 4, 2009 Author Share Posted September 4, 2009 So that wouldn't be the usual poorly-researched, scaremongering media nonsense, then? It is the science section of the Daily Telegraph, not the Daily Mail or The People. You tell me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hilda-and-evadne Posted September 4, 2009 Author Share Posted September 4, 2009 Am also not convinced they will die out in 4 years time. One third of the colonies in the US just did, last winter. If another third collapses during the winter of 2009, and the rest in the winter of 2010 - well, you do the maths. Are there enough bee colonies elsewhere in the world to restock America? I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beesontoast Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 The USA handle bees differently to almost everywhere else. 1. There are a small number of breeders who supply a large number of bee farmers. This means that the genetic pool from which they are breeding is relatively small, so any weaknesses are magnified and reproduced. By comparison, in Europe, there much greater diversity and most beekeepers either raise their own stock, or obtain it locally. 2. Migratory beekeeping is the norm in the USA. Beehives are trucked by the thousands clear across the country for the almond pollination - the biggest pollination event in the world. The almond area of northern California, if transplanted here, would stretch from London to Aberdeen. Big. Really big. Huge. Aside from the stress this causes the bees, they are also routinely medicated with antibiotics and miticides. 3. The US agricultural system is even more toxic than ours. GM crops are routine, spraying happens on a massive scale, and there are vast monocultures of crops in which bees have no interest. Given those conditions, is it so surprising that their bees are dying? Did the Telegraph bother to include any of those facts? In the Natural Beekeeping Network, we have hundreds of US beekeepers who don't migrate bees and who use chemical-free methods. Most of them are doing fine. And there are many here and in other countries whose bees are not dying out. Beekeepers have a big share of the responsibility in this - to look at what they are putting into their hives - and at the design of the hives themselves - so they are doing what is best for the bees, not just what is best for the beekeeper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdcambs Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 So that wouldn't be the usual poorly-researched, scaremongering media nonsense, then? It is the science section of the Daily Telegraph, not the Daily Mail or The People. You tell me. Well they did mention the theory mobile phones (or phone masts) are a possible cause of CCD, which is total bunkum, based on some very dodgy research which has since been discredited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melbourne12 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Now, come on, chaps! This was meant to be an amusing article about doomsday scenarios. It starts with alien invasions, and progresses via asteroid collisions. I don't think it should be taken as a scientific analysis of CCD (serious subject though that is). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Now, come on, chaps! This was meant to be an amusing article about doomsday scenarios. It starts with alien invasions, and progresses via asteroid collisions. I don't think it should be taken as a scientific analysis of CCD (serious subject though that is). indie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beesontoast Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 ...and I thought it was possible to have serious discussions here. Silly me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Please....can we keep it friendly.....and on topic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdcambs Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Who is being unfriendly? With respect, the total collapse of world honeybee populations by 2012 might be a source of amusement for some, but to beekeepers it's a serious matter not a subject of whimsy! I did not rush off to read the whole article myself, as the relevant sections had been quoted in the original post, which seemed to me to have been posted here as a factual reporting of an article in a serious news paper, as someone had pointed out; But it's full of bad journalism, as is often the case with beekeeping, and all we've done is point out the fact this article is not solidly researched. Would you have us just keep quiet and let the impression bees will all be gone by 2012 stand, even though it's not true, because to do otherwise seems unfriendly to you? Surely truth has more value than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beesontoast Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Would you have us just keep quiet and let the impression bees will all be gone by 2012 stand, even though it's not true, because to do otherwise seems unfriendly to you? Surely truth has more value than that. I agree. Either this is a serious discussion, in which case people have to put up with inconvenient facts being mentioned, or it is some kind of joke, with people free to use their LOL smilies ad lib. Friendly is fine, but if that excludes any form of sensible exchange, then I'm gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenanne Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Am also not convinced they will die out in 4 years time. One third of the colonies in the US just did, last winter. If another third collapses during the winter of 2009, and the rest in the winter of 2010 - well, you do the maths. Are there enough bee colonies elsewhere in the world to restock America? I doubt it. But you're assuming that if a beekeeper were to lose, say, 2 colonies from 6 this winter, they would be unable./ unwilling to increase the reamining 4 colonies over the summer. This isn't what happens in reality. Though a third is lost over the winter, decent hive management would increase the number of separate strong colonies over the summer, so it doesn't mean they'll go into the following winter with only the "old" 4, as they'll have increased over the summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beesontoast Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 But you're assuming that if a beekeeper were to lose, say, 2 colonies from 6 this winter, they would be unable./ unwilling to increase the reamining 4 colonies over the summer. This isn't what happens in reality. Though a third is lost over the winter, decent hive management would increase the number of separate strong colonies over the summer, so it doesn't mean they'll go into the following winter with only the "old" 4, as they'll have increased over the summer. Quite so. As in all of nature, there is a casualty rate among honeybee colonies. In the wild, this may be caused by trees being struck by lightning or breaking in high winds, forest fires, predation, etc. In hived bees (I never use the term 'domesticated' in this context), there may be other causes of death, largely related to the way they are treated by beekeepers. Unfortunately, the problems in the USA are systemic - as I have explained elsewhere - but we can do a lot for our (UK) bees by encouraging them to rebuild their wild population. That means getting people to create habitat and probably build artificial bee-houses (as opposed to hives) to hang in trees. This is something Friends of the Bees will be working on soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8landy Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 (edited) .. Edited September 13, 2009 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Thanks for the above, and for getting this back on track. This forum is indeed a place for discussing topical issues, and the one raised in this particular thread is of great interest to all beekeepers (and non-bee keepers). All we ask is that all those posting in this forum avoid sarcasm, polemics and personal attacks. There is plenty of room for discussion without the need for those! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Speckled Hen Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 So that wouldn't be the usual poorly-researched, scaremongering media nonsense, then? It is the science section of the Daily Telegraph, not the Daily Mail or The People. You tell me. It's a "silly season" filler. If you don't believe me check out some of the hundreds of comments at the bottom of the article. Much as I hate to admit it my beloved Torygraph is becoming The Daily Mail Sorry Olly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 No need to apologise! Whether this is article is right or not (I have no idea), the whole topic of colonies collapsing is a serious issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevedore Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 According to the Mayans and the ancient Chinese, the world is supposed to end December 21, 2012 anyway. We won't need bees anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beesontoast Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 According to the Mayans and the ancient Chinese, the world is supposed to end December 21, 2012 anyway. We won't need bees anymore. Thanks for that motivational speech, Steve! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8landy Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 (edited) ............ Edited September 13, 2009 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenanne Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 V8Landy, you've made my day: I officially have no good reason to even attempt to finish my v boring report today! Hurrah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
