MedusA Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 My bees definitely seem to have snuggled down now. They haven't been out and about for days. I've still got a bit of syrup left on, just in case they get peckish. If they haven't taken it in a few days, I might take it off and batten down the hatches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedusA Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 I spoke too soon. A couple of days of milder weather and the bees are flying again. Quick question for the experienced beekeepers on here... I have an OMF and have been advised to keep that open for ventilation, but should I cover the crown board holes to prevent the warm air escaping up into the roof space, or leave them open? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 MedusA' The roof space is ventilated to the atmosphere, or should be. Warm air rises. Heat will escape at an alarming rate through through an open feed hole. I would think there is a very high probability of losing your colony if those conditions apply over the winter period. Regards, RAB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chook n Boo Mum Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 I stood and watched several bees returning to my hive with bright orange legs again a couple of days ago I suppose if they are out & about they do what they do earlier in the year ie collect any available pollen, not merely tootle out for a jolly The weekend before last, before this wonderful weather, DH said he saw the bees out & all over the outside of the hive......I haven't been able to take a look inside due to dreadful weather when I'm here & reasonable weather when I'm out...the law of sod ..it was very good to see the girls with their full pollen baskets again after that report from DH. I hope all is well in the little wooden box of buzzers....maybe a window of opportunity will occur this weekend, the temperature is supposed to be warmer and not so inclement tomorrow Sha x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedusA Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 MedusA' The roof space is ventilated to the atmosphere, or should be. Warm air rises. Heat will escape at an alarming rate through through an open feed hole. I would think there is a very high probability of losing your colony if those conditions apply over the winter period. Regards, RAB Thanks RAB. I will definitely cover the holes then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 MedusA, I would hope you would be following beesontoast's advice as well. With an OMF I insulate heavily over the crownboard (most are a flat sheet, as I run with top bee space) with a spare super, with an expanded polystyrene block fitted tightly, to reduce heat losses. I do not expect to need to feed fondant as mine are well stocked on the equivalent of a National brood plus a super (14 x 12s). If I have deep roofs fitted, a 50mm sheet of polystyrene at 460mm square is more than adequate. The Dartingtons have an insulated roof and a sheet of polystyrene over the coverboards. The roof sides on those have been extended to keep everything snug. I insulate all round my nucs with polystyrene sheet (cut to fit and secured with cheap ratchet straps). Again, they are 14 x 12s with super frames above, so not exactly the expected small colony in a nuc! I may reduce the bottom ventilation if there is severe weather, but the most important thing is, I think, to keep them dry. For instance, on one hive I am not too sure the coverboard and insulating super are a good enough fit. I don't want to leave ratchet straps pulling it tight (an alternative) as too many people might want the straps and they do not last too long unless covered to exclude the light, so I have simply fitted a plastic sheet under the roof secured to the brood body so that it will not be affected by rain driving in. The possible gap is only very tiny and is covered by duct tape as well (better dry than dead!). Polyhives neither have top nor lots of bottom ventilation normally. It is simply the insulation which prevents the moisture in the air from condensing and making the hive damp. Wooden hives need more ventilation. I may also use some insulating dummies, or rather dividers, for the winter. Those with a couple hundred hives would accept that some of the weakest colonies might not make it through the winter and run quite a few nucs to replace any losses. With a very small number, like me, I give them the best chance I can. Regards, RAB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedusA Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 I am totally confused now. I followed the advice on here and covered the holes in the crown board and put a 50mm block of polystyrene insulation above the crownboard. I was feeling confident about my bees overwintering safely and then..... I got a text from my apiary manager, of whom I'd asked the same questions. His advice is to leave the porter escapes open and not to insulate. HELP!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 I will be leaving my mesh floor open and not insulating, again as advised by my BKA. Your choice entirely. I have told you what I do and why. I would have expected that the bees, given the opportunity, would have propolised completely over the porter bee escape. Look up the meaning of 'quilt' wth regard to bees. The beekeepers from long ago used them and only later were they changed to 'coverboards' and 'glass quilts'. Your post of November 20 was asking about keeping the feed holes open. Most crownboards have two holes, each big enough to fit in a porter bee escape. The area of both holes is considerably in excess of one porter bee escape and would have, if the roof is well ventilated to the atmosphere, without any insulation and with a completely open OMF. My view then was there would be high chance of the colony failing, dependant on a few other factors, of course. But now you are saying the top ventilation is reduced considerably(from your previous post). That will considerably improve your chances of having a live colony in the springtime, but I (me, personally) would still not be doing what your 'apiary manager' is suggesting. You might solicit some good alternative advice from the beekeepingform.co.uk, where a lot of experienced beeks hang out. I would make no comment to your post and let others offer their advice (without hindrance or encouragement from me). Other information needed might include locality, strength of colony, stores, site topography, type of bee , hive details, etc. Regards, RAB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macfoy Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 I am totally confused now. I followed the advice on here and covered the holes in the crown board and put a 50mm block of polystyrene insulation above the crownboard. I was feeling confident about my bees overwintering safely and then..... I got a text from my apiary manager, of whom I'd asked the same questions. His advice is to leave the porter escapes open and not to insulate. It's a shame some people have one way of doing things and think that is the only way - your apiary manager has probably been overwintering bees for the past xxx years, mostly succesfully, but it doesn't mean that his is the only advice or even the best. If you think about it carefully an open porter hole will allow heat to escape, just like in a chimney and the draught principle means it will escape faster rather than slower, if you had a draught in your house on a cold winters night what would you do? Now your bees are loosing heat through the top, what can they do? Cover the hole themselves? Not once they've clustered, the only thing they can do is consume more stores to keep themselves warm. Okay if you've lots of stores. and the stores are in the right place. They need circulating air, but not a draught. We are constantly being told to insulate our homes. Why is that? It's because by insulating we use less energy to keep warm, in our case the energy is heating - gas oil or electricity, The bees are the same, but their energy comes from their stores. They will consume less stores if their hive is well insulated and there may come a time in early spring when having a good supply of stores left over will be the difference between them surviving or not. Cover your porter hole and get some insulation above it. Macfoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedusA Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Thank you RAB and Macfoy for your eminently sensible answers. Having thought about this long and hard yesterday, and discussing it with my friend who is also new to beekeeping, I have decided to follow your advice and keep the insulation in place. It makes very logical sense to "insulate the loft" as you suggest. So that is what I choose to do. Thank you once again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macfoy Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Having thought about this long and hard yesterday, and discussing it with my friend who is also new to beekeeping, I have decided to follow your advice and keep the insulation in place. It makes very logical sense to "insulate the loft" as you suggest. So that is what I choose to do. I'm pleased you are going to do this. It's very difficult being a beginner, in anything, not just beekeeping as you have no experience to fall back on, and then when you get such conflicting advice it just makes your head spin. All the advice you will have been given is based on the fact "This works for me". You unfortunately have to sift through the conflicts and steer your own path to what works for you. Macfoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
