My eco solution to rat problems

[daj198]

Hello Everyone

 

I'm hoping to get a package of bees in April so have been doing research into which type of hive I should get as time is ticking. I came across these polystyrene Langstroths on this website: http://www.modernbeekeeping.co.uk/

 

They're very good value and, especially after this cold winter, I wonder whether it could be a sensible option. Does anyone here have experience with poly hives or know of anyone who has? Surely they can't be that bad, being so popular in mainland Europe... or is that a bad sign?

[Guest]

What do you mean 'that bad'?

 

They are positively good. Nothing wrong with them at all. Just beware to buy good ones. The poor ones are generally the low density ones which the bees can start to chew - and then it is only a matter of time before they destroy them. There are some out there!!

 

I have not got any polystyrene hives - yet. I have researched and am very likely going to buy a nucleus hive from that company and modify it for 14 x 12 or try their conversion kit.

 

My reason for trying a nuc is that I am not tied into a hive type (dont know if pars are interchangeable, but possibly not, from one manufactuer to another.

 

I know one of my close-by BKAs is recommending Langstroth hives. They are comparing, at the moment, poly and wood versions. I am fairly confident they will soon be recommending polyLangs! I run wooden hives, only, at the present but extensively use polystyrene to improve the hive insulation value for over-wintering, so my hives may be almost on a par with the polyives for warmth, but without extra insulation the poly would win hands down, I am sure.

 

It is fair to say that polyhives are very popular in mainland Europe. A good one, with care will last 20 years upwards (probably many more) according to reports. They tend to be warmer and drier than wooden hives. comparative reports indicate earlier brooding - and wall-to-wall as well (warm even at the extremities).

 

Some countries have near 100% polyhives (Denmark(?) for eg).

 

In the past couple of decades most new beeks have started with National standard and it is not so easy to change to poly (most are Langstroth) so change-over in Britain is painfully slow (beekeepers are too conservative) and also the largest UK supplier does not appear to stock anything other than miniature breeding units and queen excluders in plastic, let alone expanded polystyrene!

 

Most will need surface coating before use to prevent UV degradation and algal growth. Some care is required when doing this.

 

BTW if you are a new starter, I would recommend caution re buying packaged bees. A new starter is much much safer going the nucleus route. But that is another topic.

 

Regards, RAB

[daj198]

Thanks RAB, very helpful. It sounds as though starting with a polyhive is a good idea to avoid the issues with converting from nationals to langs.

 

I see your point about package bees... but don't most nucs come on British standard frames and so won't fit the lang?

 

Thanks again

 

Can't wait until spring!

[daj198]

Just found this http://www.modernbeekeeping.co.uk/item/22/national-frame-conversion-kit

 

A nuc it is then!

[Guest]

Hi,

 

The main difference is that a nucleus is basically a small colony, complete with all stages of brood and when transferred, will simply grow to fill the box - given satisfactory conditions and the beekeeper has a small colony with which to gain confidence.

 

Package bees are just that a package of bees plus the queen - no comb, no brood. A new beek would be better with the former as there is no queen introduction issues, no waiting 3 weeks for the first brood, a chance of recovery if there is a mishap with the queen right at the outset. Just so much easier all round with the small complete colony.

 

Questions are : have you done a course? Do you belong to your local group? Do you expect to have a mentor? All ideas for a new starter to consider as you may need some local help or advice.

 

Regards, RAB

[daj198]

Presumably you're also more likely to get a good crop of honey that year if you start with a nuc as they don't have to waste energy making as much wax.

 

I'm going to a membership day that my local BKA is running in March which is a sort of intro and induction thing. Haven't done a course but I'm looking for one. My physics lecturer keeps bees, so I'm hoping to get advice from him too. Beekeeping seems to be more of a practical skill than anything so hands-on learning is the only way to become proficient.

 

Is it at all possible to get British Black Bees? I'm wary of these Italian things...

 

Thanks

[gandalfwhitewizard]

To add my view on Poly nucs/hives I have a poly nuc with conversion kit from Modernbeekeeping and the construction is fine.

 

What you should consider is the thermal properties of the poly over the wood! However, like all things there are pro's and con's!

 

Poly will need a weather proof coating of exterior paint and allowed to dry sufficently prior to the bees going in. Bees i have heard from a beek in Dulwich found they nibbled at the hive also remember that they will propolis things down and although you can help this by smearing a small amount of petroluem jelly its still a consideration.

 

However, all that said i think you will find if you re-visit the website a new style nuc is coming on the market from Finland with varroa floor, and can be stacked to form a 14x12 configuration and divided into two sides with separate entrances! it can also take Langstroths with National frame adaptors !

 

So, all in all value for money., well certainly from my point of view since we run Langstroths and raise nucs on Nationals and now 14x12 ideal for the Beehaus, which we have to run our introduction to beekeeping courses on with the Beehaus.

 

Surprised to see Oliver90 here as I thought he wasnt keen on the Beehaus from the other forum? Maybe i am mistaken?

 

To conclude....Nothing wrong with Poly nucs/hives just that we in the UK are slow to catch up with our EU members sometimes! If it works for you then use it!

[Guest]

gandalfwhitewizard,

 

Bees are bees. Hives are hives. I think I was saying nothing about the beehaus on this thread, and nothing was asked about the same.

 

If you look back at my posts you might find that it was I who was trying to tell them the truth that the beehaus was only new materials but basically a plastic Dartington. I have a fair bit more experience with the system than most on here. I quite like the Dartingtons or would not have made a second one. I have no intention of discarding them.

 

Now you say this new nuc can also take Langstroths with National frame adaptors !

 

I think you have that a little wrong. It will take national frames with adaptors. It is basically a Langstroth nuc. The poster is wanting to go polyhive so that is best if it is Langstroth - so much more a common format than National, on a world-wide basis. I wish they would make a poly national format.

 

It is not the only option but some are definitely suspect from longevity of the product. I have no experience of Rooftops' hives but would expect them to be quite comparable with Sweinty(no experience of those, either) and am likely to try one of the nucs if they can be modified appropriately. I am awaiting further information on that one, as you are presumably?

 

I will try anything I think may be advantageous to me and/or the bees. I might even be trying a beehaus this summer, you never know.......But I am already running two Dartingtons, so I know how they perform, both for me and for the bees.

 

Regards, RAB

[pdcambs]

I've put bees into one of those plastic Langstroth hives last summer. They have open mesh floors and I bought a bulk feeder as an extra. The brood box is a medium depth Langstroth, although the company supplying them have described them to me over the phone as deeps, while the supers are a shallow Langstroth size.

 

I bought mine as the Langstroth nucs I'd populated on HSC fully drawn small cell (4.9mm) comb, which can only be imported from the USA in Langstroth size frames, were becoming congested and these poly hives are cheaper than buying cedar Langstroths. Once those bees have regresses in size through a couple of generation (by this summer) I'll be using the national frame converters with blank starter strips to produce national nucs from the poly stock. I'll also be using regressed bees to populate a Warre Hive as another experiment.

 

So I've used these poly Langstroths because of the frame size I'm forced to use in this instance. Some bee farmers and a few hobby beekeepers do use Langstroths in the UK but general advice to beginners is to chose a hive type (and/or frame size) and then stick to it to avoid compatibility problems. Hive type would most often be chosen either to match availability of secondhand equipment or to suit the strain of bee you decide to use. I favor the less prolific AMM dark bee, but if you want to go for a more prolific Italian strain you will likely need a hive larger than the national (Or double brood a national) in which case a Dartington (Omlet) type might be quite useful.

 

As yet I've not looked into the poly hive this spring, it hefts ok and I can hear the bees when the inspection tray is pulled open a little. If I find they have chewed up the inside when I do my first spring inspections I'll let you all know. However I fully expect to buy a few more of these hives this year to accelerate my experiments with bee size regression as my initial impressions of the product, its design and cost, are quite favorable.

 

 

Peter

Cambridge UK

[widdershins]

Ive used Poly Langs - they are brilliant for building up a small colony, and of course, gives extra protection against the cold in the winter.

 

Give it a try, you wont know until you do, it is after all, your decision.

[Finman]

.

I have used poly hives 22 years. I have wooden boxes too in use and they are made in 1966.

 

I use polyboxes as brood box and especially during winter and spring. They are most of all warm.

 

I do migration beekeeping and that job they are marvellous. They are light to handle.

I move alone hives and 2 brood box hive is easy to lift. With wooden box broods the back pain will be quite sure.

 

I made solitary mating nucs some years ago. They are spelnded. I splitted normal poly box with table saw and put polystyrene insulating board in the plave of missing wall.

 

You may repair and glue poly with polyurethane glue. It hardens with water.

 

Insulating board is too light to made whole boxes. Boxes will collapse in use and bees and ants bite them to flour.

 

If you use insulatng board, paint all surface with latex or something non odor paint.

[Old Speckled Hen]

 

I wish they would make a poly national format.

 

 

Regards, RAB

 

I emailed Stamfordham to see if they stock, poly nationals as advertised in their 2010 catalogue, yesterday and got this reply back.

 

" Yes.

No crown boards at the moment, but floor, broods, supers, roofs, frames, foundation, NZ clearer boards, QEs available.

 

Mike "

 

I have just made up a wooden National, converting to top bee space and was looking at having a poly hive.

[Guest]

Old Speckled Hen,

 

Thanks for the link.

 

Unfortunately I am on 14 x 12s universally and don't really want to change. I will see what they can offer for that format.

 

Their basic hive is half as much again as the typical Swienty or Modern Beekeeping offerings, so I shall likely be looking at the those other options and perhaps fitting a reducers (to accommodate 14 x12). I would expect their density (of the polystyrene) to be adequate, but I shall be asking......

 

I still prefer wood as it is natural, sustainable, and repairable. So easy to fabricate them myself, as well.

 

But I do intend to try a polyhive. It will likely be a nucleus hive, for a start, as one will not interfere with my normal beetainers and a nuc should be a little cheaper to experiment with.

 

It is the thermal properties and freedom from condensation which appeal to me. I have no experience of them yet but cannot ignore all the positive feedback from users and the sheer numbers used in colder climates than ours.

 

Regards, RAB

[Finman]

.

Strange that you hive parts are so expencive.

 

Your poly box cost 20 € and here I get 15€ several models.

 

Your frames are 3 fold so expencive as here.

[Old Speckled Hen]

Holiday to Finland with an empty suitcase then

[Tara.F]

Hello

 

I don't usually post in this section but I am currently enrolled on a beekeeping course and last night there was a discussion on Polystyrene hives.

 

The chap teaching us told us that there is a problem with them.

Apparently, if the bees are found to have a certain ailment, (and I stupidly forget which one ) the bees and the hive must be destroyed. With traditional wooden hives this is done by burning. Polystyrene cannot be burnt and must be buried at a certain death in landfill sites under controlled conditions.

He said that this was becoming a problem in Sweden when he was there recently and a huge expense, borne entirely by the individual beekeeper.

 

As I said, I am new to beekeeping. I offer no 'expert' opinion. I'm just passing on what I was told by someone more knowledgeable in case it is of use.

[Toots]

That would sound to me like american Foul brood (AFB).

[chickenanne]

Yep, sounds like AFB to me, as well.

 

I've not been keeping bees long, (since last year only) and on our course the consensus with tutors at the time was that AFB was so uncommon as not to worry overmuch re: polly hives. HOWEVER, this year AFB was discovered reasonably locally, so it's a different story now! I have wooden hives - largely because I inherited some Smith hives and didn't want to mix types I didn't have much of a dilemma re: material. Am sure some people would say that the advantages of polystyrene hives outweigh the risks, and others would no doubt tell you the opposite .

 

There was a discussion about sterilizing hives, both plastic and polly, on here when the beehaus was first introduced, which you might find interesting, if slightly inconclusive, the bottom line IMO being that it's up to the appropriate authorities to say what is and isn't acceptable.

[Finman]

.

I have nursed bees 47 years and 22 years polyhives.

Burning polyhives is nonsence.

 

Polyhives can be sterilized and cleaned with 3% lye solution.

Mostly I must wash nosema poo away from wintering box but with hot lye water it happens easily. Hot loosens wax and resin.

[Sheilaz]

..... Polystyrene cannot be burnt and must be buried at a certain death in landfill sites under controlled conditions....

Tara, I hope you're reassured by the experienced Finman & others that plastic can be sterilised, so there is no need to take that drastic action!

This is a direct quote from James from Omlet, when the subject of Foul Brood arose before;

 

"It is seems to be a common misconception that you cannot sterilise plastic beehives, killing bacteria or spores. Plastic can be sterilised using common chemicals (e.g.bleach, caustic soda or virkon 5). This is made clear by Defra in their advisory leaflets....... under the head Chemical Sterilisation. The only thing that chemicals cannot treat is wax - but you would remove this before doing the sterilisation. Wooden hives are only flamed because they have lots of nooks and crannies which you cannot reach and the wood absorbs the bacteria into its surfaces.

 

As beekeepers ourselves, we are aware of the requirements to completely sterilise a hive that has had EFB or AFB. So, we designed the beehaus to be easy to clean and sterilise. It is also very easy to replace any part you like – simply unbolt it. As with Omlet products, every part will be available quickly and at a reasonable price. If you were unfortunate to have either type of foulbrood – you can fulfill your statutory requirements without having to burn your hive and we would help you get your hive up and running again as quickly as possible."

[Finman]

Lye is difficult to get but you may use hard alcalic stuffs what you use to clean your bathroom or sevage tubes. Sevagetube stuffs are good to clean poo from plastic surfaces. That is the most usual need to clean boxes after winter.

 

Alcaic stuffs turn fat to soap and they destroy the lipid layer of living organism.

 

Those stuffs are commonly used. Our mothers made whitewash with lye 50 years ago.

Water pipes and dairymill pipes are cleaned with lye. It is normal in food industry.

 

If surfaces yet feels slippy after water washing, you may spray acetic acid on surface and it neutralize the alcalic residuals. I noticed that acid peat takes slippy feeling away at once.

 

You may pour the alcalic water into garden soil and it will be neutralized there at once.

[Melbourne12]

The confusion in the UK about sterilising plastic hives comes about from this leaflet https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/pdfs/Statutory%20procedures%20leaflet.pdf

 

which specifically (page 11) talks about using a blowlamp to sterilise hives.

 

However, if you talk to the FERA bee inspectors, they'll tell you that chemical sterilisation is also acceptable for plastic hives.

 

As Finman says, caustic soda (lye) is the most effective and cost-effective treatment.

 

(Finman, lye is easily and cheaply obtainable in the UK, for amateur soapmaking, and for domestic use as caustic soda crystals)

[Finman]

.

I use as washing container a children's sled, in pic

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3320/3407664538_ae2a88c894.jpg?v=0

 

 

Hot water there , then lye and start to brush.

 

You may use even some kind of low pit and coated with a sheet of plastic: "lye pond".