Pro - Does anyone else's nest boxes get soaked in rain?

[donald]

Hi

 

Does anyone have one of these power stations nearby ie local farmers tend to be getting money for supplying electricity etc from waste material ie via methane gas.

 

If you live near one does it smell? Any health risks at all?

 

It all sounds environmentally friendly but it is also about hitting EU targets etc and they still produce as much green house gas. Some farmers are being approached to grow crops to be fed into these plants? Hence pushing up price of cereal crops which they will also grow.So quids in!

 

Do they smell etc? Extra lorries etc etc

 

Any info from anyone living near one of these thanks Donald

[Geoid]

The methane gas would have been produced anyway when the waste materials decompose, at least they are putting it to good use. It would smell, but, most of the gases producing the smell would be trapped by the machine that collects the gas.

[donald]

Yes I agree all the methane from landfill over the years should have been used to make electricity. However to grow crops (Maize ) on good arable land to then rot it. However the power plants also produce as much green house gas which like coal and oil fired stations will contribute to global warming. I know of plants where food is taken from restaurants and supermarkets( a friend worked in a big supermarket and the fish gets thrown every day..they wont even sell it to the staff).Surely they should reduce waste first?

 

Residents do complain about similar smells. The world bank also think that food crop prices are being pushed up due to farmers growing biocrops. Eu targets are constantly mentioned. The government are heavily subsidising this so there are a lot of companies set up to provide capital to farmers to build the plants. Farming or industrialisation?

 

Also one report suggests if the whole digester isnt mixed properly metals can be put back into the land in the wrong proportion.

We have had some scientist look at the facts so far and they are not convinced and sceptical. Sounds too good to be true(plus the lorries that collect the waste) etc.

Donald..ps one plant near us uses tomatoes! only!what a waste!

[louise1976]

Hello, Louise's other half here...

 

AD plants...

 

I work on the electricity generation side of this sort of thing, but in the area I work there are three AD plants that we attend.

 

Are they smelly?

 

Yes, they can be, but it does depend on the type of digester system, and what they are digesting - maize crops have been used in Europe for years, and are the least odourous, waste food is next, and this is an evolving technology in the UK, with companies like Biogen opening new plants across the country - on a bad day it really honks!, but the plants are designed to reduce the impact of this to a minimum. Sewage treatment works.... This is really beginning to take off - Anglian and Thames water are investing heavily, and aim to have power generation on all sites that will support it - lets face it, we all produce this product, and the smell is about what you would expect.

 

The worst part of the process is getting the digestate removed - it is a nitrogen rich fertiliser, Biogen spread it on their fields - it stinks for a day or so.

 

The electricity generated in all cases is fed back to the grid, and owners of these plants do earn well out of them - £2000 a day is not unheard of, and that is just for the electricity - waste food plants charge about £40/ton to drop the waste.....

 

That being said, it is the most efficient way of reducing CH4 content in the atmosphere, and solves more problems than it creates (keeps me in a job too!)

 

If you want to know more let me know, and I will answer what I can (there are some commercially sensitive things I cant mention)

 

Cheers

Louise's other half (keeping undercover...)

[donald]

Hi Louise

 

Thanks for the answers, I think a lot of it is just not 100% convincing! I am reading about metals in the end result can be too high when put on fields etc. Absolutely agree that recycling(if thats what we call it) I am very sceptical when I go to places like India and the continent and they still recycle glass etc ie thinking about plastic milk containers.

 

Also I still think supermarkets waste so much food as I know one chain does throw out its fish counter at the end of the day and wont even sell it to its own staff, where there is muck there is money. The other thing is the Germans are subsidised very heavily. What I am getting at is the waste has to be made to ensure these plants can thrive, rather than reducing waste. I am not talking about slurry as thats been spread on fields for years.

 

Visits have been made to a few plants and the pong is awful, the locals really complain but as its all the green rage no one seems to listen to locals. I just think the farmers should do this in their back gardens and not in someone elses. Unfortunately they seem to be stuck near main routes as road access is needed, hence near housing. It is industrialisation of farms.

 

Big farmers are not poor either.

 

Still not convinced Donald

 

On the environment agency web site it talks as yet its early days regarding pollution ie water courses etc. Am wondering one day when this is going to come back to bite us. Sorry the website talks as yet of a test case in law as yet there have been no legal problems..YET! But it seems to suggest it may happen ?? perhaps I misread it. The more I dig the more I am not convinced. I understand certain counties are earmarked to take restaurant waste from London too

[louise1976]

You refer to metals in the digestate - the majority of this would come from packaging - this is stripped out of the process, as this sort of non degradeable product causes issues with the process - the site local to me has a massive machine that reclaims aluminium.

 

Other than that the only thing in the spent digestate is the remnants of the food waste introduced to the process.

 

It is recycling, there is no other description for it - sure a reduction in waste product is desirable - supermarkets are terrible for this - if they have a damaged pallet of foodstuff it is not repacked, the whole pallet is sent to s"Ooops, word censored!" - this is to stop the possibility of contamination of our food chain with foreign objects.

 

The local site also takes in kitchen waste as part of a "brown bin" program - many tons of waste are recycled, and not sent to landfill.

 

The transport of waste across the country isnt a new thing - Bath and Somerset have all their waste shipped by rail to Calvert Landfill Site in Buckinghamshire - the only reason this happens is due to landfill capacity running out - this is happening all over the country - we only have one site left open in this area now, and that is scheduled to close in the next 18 months.

 

Waste has to go somewhere - microgeneration is one solution - in a lot of cases it isnt exactly micro.... Brogborough LFS is exporting about 25megawatts of power all fed from landfill gas!

 

It is a truly massive industry, set up and running costs are huge - the local plant cost around £12,000,000 to set up - there are fairly hefty annual running costs as well....

[donald]

ok

 

I am all for recycling. At the moment slurry from sewerage is spread on the fields, it pongs I mean I cant walk my dog it is so vile! It smells for 2 weeks not 2 days. I work in healthcare and I have smelt some dreadful smells.

No problem here with this, great idea recycling.

 

The new proposed intensive dairy cow farming(ref Countryfile) is going to create mega slurry! which is in turn going to be good for the digester companies so it feeds the recycling plant. Got to say I prefer to see cows in a field and grazing and fertilising the land. Our local farmers stack manure and spread it over the fields(huge heaps).

 

Since we have had brown bins we are encouraged to fill them so this can also go to be recycled. In our bins we are able to put garden/food/cardboard(brown). Prior to this many had compost heaps in their garden, and dont get me wrong I know not everyone can do this(I have lived in East London). So we have been indirectly encouraged to make more for recycling. I stopped putting food stuff in my brown bin as we had maggots in the summer(mind you natural recycling).

 

Only about 15 years ago pigs would have the left overs from restaurants/hospitals ie pig swill. This was stopped due to health and safety.

 

I understand that only 35% of the energy in maize will be converted into electrical energy? 65% will be released into the environment in the form of heat?

My biggest concern is the location of these plants in the countryside. It is industrialisation of the countryside. Farmers are being approached by investors who see a good way to make a great deal of money. Not too convinced it is so green after all. Nuclear power stations perhap better option?

Countryfile visited USA which has a massive meat industry and lots of land to build these kinds of plants. Criticism of smells, increased asthma etc were raised at the end.

 

I hope I am proved wrong but it seems to be to hit a lot of EU targets(well thats what I read in a recent planning application in our local area). Even the environment agency dont seem to clear as they state the no test case in law exists and are going to review their quality protocols 2 years. But I have read mentions of if a leak from the plants into water sources/fire/ no available odour measurements only for exhuast emissions from the power generating unit(CHP). None available for maize slurry mixing tank or residue tanks? Lorries if the farmer sells the by product off to others for fertilisers.

 

Good arable land being used to make electricity.

How much waste do we ship abroad?india?

 

Still not convinced Donald

[donald]

Debate on channel 4 this Thursday 9pm ? about green environmentalists thinking they have now got it wrong?? should be a good one to watch!