Poorly chicken

[miss_spent]

My Miss Pepperpot hadn't laid for a couple of days and wasn't quite right, exhibiting some Eggbound symptoms. I took her to the vet last night and he removed a collapsed shell from her oviduct.

 

I kept her in last night, and have put her back out today. She seems better and is digging about more, but still not right. She still seems to be straining slightly and her tail is still slightly down. He did say that he thought she had another soft egg on the way.

 

- How long should the next egg take to come out? The offending shell was removed less than 24 hours ago.

- Should I take her back to see if there is another shell stuck? I haven't seen any evidence of egg yolk and white, although her droppings seem slightly green.

- Could this just be the soft egg? How long before I should worry and take her back? I know how time-crucial these things are.

 

Thanks in advance

[sandyhas3chucks]

replied to your pm.

The easy answer is 25 hours, but it is more complicated than that.

Sometimes there still may be more shell there and the next egg if whole will push it out.

If not she will she signs of being unwell, most likely (in my experience at 12.01 on a Sat just after Vet shuts for weekend)

You need to address the softee issue and she will be fine.

Green droppings may be she has not eaten enough if she has been trying to shift shell for couple of days.

She is digging and happy and poo back to normal , should be fine.

[The Dogmother]

I'd give it another 24 hours and if nothing has appeared, or you can't see anything dangling from her vent which you can pull out, then take her back to the vet.

 

Have you tried adding calcium and cod liver oil to their diet?

 

This could be just a blip for her, or something more permanent... only time will tell.

[miss_spent]

Thanks for the response The Dogmother

 

They had both been on extra calcium and cod liver oil for a week before this happened, so I was a bit surprised to be honest!

 

I gave Audrey neat Calcivet infused grapes last night to give her even more and try to get a normal egg out.

 

No egg yet according to OH, but she was certainly perkier this morning and ate nearly all of the calcium/CLO breakfast to herself!! Audrey likes her food!!!!

 

I am going to carry on with extra calcium and keep a close eye on her - they will both come inside again tonight.

 

Droppings are back to normal and her tail wasn't down or bobbing this morning, so it seemed that she had improved.

[The Dogmother]

If extra calcium doesn't work then she may just have a malfunctioning shell gland, only time will tell.

[sandyhas3chucks]

I think you said the shells were thinnish for a wee while..

It sometimes will take more than a week to show better shells.

Have a look at this. but sounds promising, drinking lots might be your first sin all is not right, either softee or temperature..

EDITTED. TO REMOVE INCORRECT LINK AND TO ADD THIS

Uterus (shell gland)and eggshell quality

The uterus is a relatively short, bulbous gland up to 12 centimetres in length. The developing egg remains in the uterus for 18-20 hours while approximately 40% of the albumen and all of the shells are added. It is for this reason that the organ is often called the shell gland. Shell formation really begins by the deposition of small clusters of calcium carbonate crystals onto the outer shell membrane while in the isthmus. These are the initiation grains for the subsequent calcium carbonate deposition in the uterus. The number of these grains is genetically controlled and is related to the subsequent shell thickness – the more grains deposited in the isthmus, the thicker will be the final shell.

 

The shell of an egg is formed in two layers:

 

Mammillary layer: a sponge like layer composed of soft calcite crystals (CaCO3). This layer is the inner layer.

Palisade layer: formed of columns of hard calcite crystals – the longer the columns the stronger the shell. This layer is the outer layer.

The calcium for the eggshell comes from three sources – the diet, special bone called medullary bone (found in the cavity of long bones) of point of lay pullets and the skeleton. The hen uses approximately 2.5 grams of calcium in the formation of one normal egg. She cannot absorb sufficient calcium from her diet each day (approximately 2.0 grams per day) to supply this need and hence, it becomes necessary for her to utilise skeletal calcium to make up the shortfall. This is particularly so at night when most of the shell is being formed but the hen in unlikely to be eating. In addition to the calcite, the shell also contains small quantities of sodium, potassium and magnesium.

 

The carbonate ions go with the calcium to form the calcium carbonate of the egg’s shell come from the blood and from the shell gland. If anything should interrupt the supply of carbonate, thin-shelled eggs will result. This occurs in hot weather when hens pant to remove excess heat energy. The increased respiratory rate removes carbon dioxide from the blood thus reducing the carbonate ions available for eggshell formation.

 

There are many factors that influence eggshell quality:

 

Length of time in lay: the longer the bird is in lay, the weaker the shells will become because of her inability to obtain daily enough calcium from her diet to supply all of her needs for one egg. As a consequence, the better layers will deplete their skeleton.

Increased environmental temperature: this results in reduced food consumption (and calcium) and the reduction of carbonate ions because of panting.

Egg laying time: Eggs laid early in the morning are more likely to have thinner shells than those laid by the same bird later in the day. This is because in the case of those eggs laid early the shells have been deposited during the hours of darkness when the bird doesn’t eat i.e. consume calcium for the shell.

Stress: Stressed birds lay thinner shelled eggs.

Body checked and misshapen eggs: Most of these defects are caused by the birds being startled shortly after the egg has entered the uterus and the first layers of calcium carbonate have been deposited. At this stage the shell is very fragile and weak and when startled the hen’s muscles contract (including those in the wall of the uterus) and thus crack the newly forming shell. These are covered by subsequent depositions of shell but the damage remains in the form of body checks and/or misshapen eggs.

Disease: Certain diseases e.g. infectious bronchitis cause weak shell and misshapen eggs.

Drugs: Certain drugs influence eggshell formation and deposition.

The shell of an egg contains openings or pores. There are approximately 8000 such pores in the shell of a normal hen’s egg. The function of these pores is to provide for the gaseous exchange during incubation and embryonic development. The developing embryo requires oxygen and gives off carbon dioxide. When the egg is first laid most of the pores are closed. However, as the egg ages more and more pores open up. The cuticle deposited on the outer shell is composed of organic material and water and blocks the pores. During the laying process the cuticle acts as a lubricant, but once laid, the egg’s surface soon dries and the residue – mainly protein closes off most of the pores as a barrier to the invasion of bacteria and fungi.

[miss_spent]

Thanks Sandy. It was Cilla that had been laying soft shells, Audrey (who was ill this time) had been laying perfect shells up until then. Cilla's shells are back to being great now.

 

Still no egg yet, but she doesn't seem ill. She is perky, busy and eating and pooing normally. Her body doesn't seem anywhere near as hot as it was when she had the shell stuck.

 

The fact she hasn't laid anything (no softy evidence, or white - which is what I found last time) makes me think she is just getting back into it after the 'trauma'. Well fingers crossed anyway. I am not sure when I should start to worry!!!!

 

Will keep you posted!

[miss_spent]

Just an update, Audrey is looking really good, so conclusion is that she is fine despite the lack of eggs. Today I have opened up the Eglu to find a lash (which Cilla ran off and ate as soon as I prodded it! ) and a soft shell, so I think that she has got out anything that has been troubling her now!!!

 

I wanted to photograph the lash, but sadly wasn't quick enough!!!!