4m x 3m Omlet pen, cube, new auto door still boxed and coop light

[jos]

I have an ex batt who is eating/drinking fine, seems quite happy BUT is slowing down and has a swollen tummy. I assume she has peritonitis. Should I take her to the vet asap even though otherwise she is fine?

Will putting her on treatment stop it getting worse?

Edited June 3, 2009 by Guest

[Budgies]

Sorry to hear that, Jos.

 

If she has got peritonitis, I'm afraid there's very little that can be done.

 

As others have found out from trying to keep their hens despite their suffering peritonitis, infections come repeatedly and the chicken has to have antibiotics and sometimes painkillers and fluid drains.

 

Ultimately there is no cure and it all comes down to your personal choice about how much suffering is enough for your pet. My hen was struggling to breathe when roosting, her comb was tinged with purple and her whole body was moving with the effort to breathe.

 

That was enough to convince me to say goodbye to my girl.

[Egluntyne]

Budgies is right.....any treatment is merely palliative and buys them a few months at most.

 

The eventual breathlessness caused by the swelling is distressing for them, so I let my girls go too.

[jos]

Thanks for your replies. I will keep a close eye on her and, hopefully, will be strong enough to make the right decision at the right time.

J

[emmaw298]

my hettie is the same at the moment - she was eggbound then developed peritonitis. I think she has passed the egg but still very swollen underneath, despite eating and drinking as normal. Hopefully, when the time comes we will know.

Is there a difference between survival if it sterile peritonitis or not?

 

forgot to say - hope your hen is not suffering too much for now and not too distressing for you either...

[jos]

Thanks, Emma,

I'm sure she is not suffering at the moment; she has just been in to my kitchen and enjoyed a hearty breakfast!

Warmest wishes for your Hettie,

J

[Budgies]

Is there a difference between survival if it sterile peritonitis or not?

 

I'm afraid that I don't think it does make much difference.

 

The hen is always going to lay her egg yolks internally into the wrong area.

 

Sometimes their bodies can re-absorb the yolks.

 

Sometimes their bodies create a film over the yolk that covers it and prevents it becoming infected.

 

But in all instances there is usually fluid and infection at some point, because it's an ongoing process that doesn't stop - if your girl used to lay four or five days running, she still probably is, only they're going the wrong way and have the potential for causing her problems.

 

My vet said she believed it was one of the most painful conditions a chicken could suffer from, the ascites (fluid build up).

 

I'm really sorry you're experiencing all this, it's not nice is it, poor wee girls.

[jos]

My concern is knowing when they are in pain. I took little Twix to the vet happily thinking she wasn't too bad in that her tail was up and she is eating/drinking ok. But the vet could feel a lump on her liver, took her temp and said it was really high and drained off some horrible fluid. So she was probably feeling alot worse than I thought.

It's getting the timing right isn't it?

 

If one of my others gets peritonitis, which is bound to happen as I have 6 more ex batts, I don't want to PTS a chicken whilst she seems pretty ok but then I don't want to wait until she is obviously suffering, because by that time she's probably really in pain.

 

Keeping chickens is proving a steep learning curve for me!

J

[Guest]

the vet will tell you if they think she's suffering.

 

I don't know if my girl's story will help you but here's the thread

 

hope she keeps getting better xxx

 

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=44603

[Budgies]

My concern is knowing when they are in pain. I took little Twix to the vet happily thinking she wasn't too bad in that her tail was up and she is eating/drinking ok. But the vet could feel a lump on her liver, took her temp and said it was really high and drained off some horrible fluid. So she was probably feeling alot worse than I thought.

It's getting the timing right isn't it?

 

If one of my others gets peritonitis, which is bound to happen as I have 6 more ex batts, I don't want to PTS a chicken whilst she seems pretty ok but then I don't want to wait until she is obviously suffering, because by that time she's probably really in pain.

 

Keeping chickens is proving a steep learning curve for me!

J

 

 

It's incredibly difficult to call, and I felt so at sea when Mango was ill. I thought it was because it was my first seriously ill hen, (and my first ever pet) that I felt so lost but I've realised I'll feel just as horrible if it happens again.

 

One very good piece of advice I got at the time was that an overweight hen is far more prone to peritonitis. Corn should be an occasional treat - or a way to fatten young birds for the dinner table. It should not be fed every day to our pets and you should only feed a teaspoon per hen, and it should be a scratch food, so they have to forage and burn off calories to get it.

 

Trust yourself, your instinct, because deep down you KNOW what you're happy to tolerate. If your hen looks very unwell, believe me, she feels it. If she looks ok but you know she's ill, take her to a vet to get a professional opinion. They will certainly guide you on how much your girl is going through and how realistic her chances of recovery and survival are. I trusted my vet implicitly on this.

[sandyhas3chucks]

well to put a spanner in the works..

After I had my 1st ex bats(1st chickens too) they had swollen red bums but that was what I was given & thought no more, no experience. After 3 weeks one got to look different, then I decided was all wrong.

Took her to a VET (finding one was the 1st problem) 3/4 hour drive and vet was very sad, she did not give her much of a chance . said it was peritonitis Too green to ask which, didn't know what it was even!

She gave her liquid food supplement...Metacam, baytril injection, baytril to go home with. Well the metacam must have made her feel better in the time we drove home as she went straight for a drink, rested then ate And slowly bt surely made a complete recovery & turned into the biggest feathery est, meanest head cook for her remaining 10 months.

So I hope that gives you some hope, she did not die with peritonitis by the way! And never got it in between either.

[Budgies]

And slowly bt surely made a complete recovery & turned into the biggest feathery est, meanest head cook for her remaining 10 months.

 

 

Wow, that's amazing! So did she lay eggs again Sandy? My understanding was that once they develop egg peritonitis (the egg yolks being laid internally and going astray), they don't ever lay again. Did she have a build up of fluid in her abdomen? And did that disappear?

[sandyhas3chucks]

yes she laid again only for a while , she seemed to stop in Octoberish I thinki it is always difficult to say, she went through softee hardee softee for a bit.

Sorry if vague as I was so new, I probably didn't ask the right questions, but I have a huge bulging botty picture somewhere.

I am sure that somewhere I read that if you have them sleep at an angleit helps with fluid build up, but sorry too vague , and which way bot down I supose.

If our Egluntine sees this , and if it was on this forum I wouldn't mind betting she will know just which post it was.

[jos]

I had to have little Twix PTS at the w/e and because I have had 4 chickens become ill and die since December I had a post mortem done on her.

The vet phoned this morning and they found multiple tumours all over her insides and thinks she either had leukosis (most likely) or mareks.

 

Unfortuantly I had to take another of my chickens to be PTS this morning and the vet took alot of time explaining what she thinks is happening.

 

 

Leukosis is passed on from the parent chickens but has a long incubation period so that most commercial chickens are culled well before the symptoms show. It causes all the tumours they found but also swelling and fluid in the abdomen. The vet says she is seeing more and more chickens with this type of problem as people are now keeping them as pets. The commercial chicken producers are really only interested in breeding chickens who will lay well for a year. After this they expect them to be culled so any diseases or sensitivity to disease that manifests itself after a year is, to them, irrelevant.

 

My worry is now that they will all go the same way.... Nothing I can do but look after them as best I can and keep my fingers crossed.

Edited June 3, 2009 by Guest

[Redwing]

How awful, I am really sorry

[Hen Watch]

Sorry to hear about Twix Jos.

 

Thank you for posting the PM results, that is very interesting. I have 2 hybrids with swollen botties which has reocurred within weeks. My vet was not sure of cause either and mentioned it could be anything from peritonitis, to tumours, heart problem etc.

 

I think on balance when the time comes to get new chickens I will think about pure breeds that don't produce so many eggs. I know they won't be exempt from this kind of thing, but I will definately consider them next time.

[Budgies]

So sorry to hear about your two hens Jos. How very hard for you.

 

I have to say I didn't cope with the heartache of losing Mango to peritonitis very well, and that spurred me to make the decision to keep pure breeds next time. It does seem so cruel to me that their egg laying gear that makes them so attractive as a good egg producer when young is what malfunctions to cause some of these hybrids such suffering.

[The Dogmother]

Budgies - out of all the pure breeds I've had, only one has had peritonitis (due to leukosis), she was 3 years old anyway, and had never been the healthiest of hens.

 

As has been said - high yield egg layers are just more prone to the egg type of peritonitis; it's a 'hazard of the job' so to speak. A real shame but that's how it is.

 

The signs are easy to see if you watch your hens closely and there's no need for them to be in any discomfort or pain if properly managed. I have always despatched or had PTS any hen who was badly affected or on the way out.

[peggotty]

I am sorry to hear about Twix and your other hens.

 

But can I say thank you for posting all the info for the rest of us concerned ex-batt owners.

[Budgies]

Budgies - out of all the pure breeds I've had, only one has had peritonitis (due to leukosis), she was 3 years old anyway, and had never been the healthiest of hens.

 

As has been said - high yield egg layers are just more prone to the egg type of peritonitis; it's a 'hazard of the job' so to speak. A real shame but that's how it is.

 

The signs are easy to see if you watch your hens closely and there's no need for them to be in any discomfort or pain if properly managed. I have always despatched or had PTS any hen who was badly affected or on the way out.

 

Thanks Claret, it is reassuring that the pure breeds are less likely to develop egg peritonitis overall.

 

It seems to me that the hybrids are bred solely for the "big boys" who will keep and then cull them when young (so they don't get to the peritonitis stage as much).

 

As a hobbyist, my main concerns aren't for loads of eggs, nor even pretty coloured eggs, but for the health of my characterful pets, so I don't think I'm prepared to take the risk of losing a high proportion of future possible hens to peritonitis now I've experienced it.

 

Never say never, of course after dealing with broodies etc a bit further down the line I might be desperate to go back to hybrids!!

[GeorgieB]

Sorry to hear about Twix Jos I have lost 2 hens in the last month. Feeling really sad and I'm also now worried for my other girls in case it was Leukosis they had. Wish I had thought about having a post mortem.

 

I have always despatched or had PTS any hen who was badly affected or on the way out.

 

Do you get someone in to despatch the hens Claret? I have to say that when I went to the vet on Monday to PTS Scampy it was very upsetting to watch.

 

The vet said he sedates them first to stop them moving about which seemed to cause her to breath with even more difficulty (once he'd injected it into her) as she was opening her beak wider as she breathed in. He couldn't get the injection into her vein, after a few goes, as she moved about still, so ended up putting it in her breastbone.

 

I wish he'd just done that to start with which would have made the whole process quicker. I don't want this to put people off going to the vet as it's better than just leaving them to suffer but wonder if despatching might be better as I'm told it's instant (for someone who knows what they're doing).

[jos]

Thanks for all your replies, and your concern. My family tend to glaze over politely when i'm talking about my chickens; they just cannot understand why I love them so much!

 

I will at some time adopt more ex-batts armed with more knowledge than previously.

When I started out I fondly thought I could give these little hens a happy place to live for the rest of their lives, thinking that would be 2 or 3 years of happy retirment pottering around my orchard until they died peacefully of old age.

 

Now I realise that this will be the exception and that I must be prepared for illnes rather than old age.

I will, also, now be much more aware of the signs and symptoms and be more able to spot when a chicken is beginning to suffer.

 

I also hope one day to learn to not boo-hoo all over the vet every time I take a chicken in to be PTS. A long way from that at the moment!

 

Thanks, again, for all your replies. It really really helps to know there are other concerned owners out there all doing their best for their chickens.

 

J

[Budgies]

Jos, I'm with you on this, my experience so far is that my two little hens had to both be PTS for different reasons. I too had visions of them just quietly dying in their sleep of old age, but it doesn't seem to be the case as often as one would hope.

 

As for not crying in front of the vet, I wouldn't worry about that!! I could barely speak to the vet about my two I was crying so hard on the day we had them both PTS. When I apologised (because I was embarrassed) she said she'd rather have a conscientious pet owner getting upset than someone who didn't care much for their animals asking for them to be PTS. She agreed with me that we'd reached the end of the line for both my wee girls and that it would be unfair to put them through anything else.

 

And Georgie B, I think you were very brave staying with your girl whilst she was PTS. I'd decided that much as I was scared to be there, I WOULD hold my girls whilst they were injected, but the vet said they didn't encourage us to watch as it could be distressing. Mostly because they do have a tendency to flap (it's reflexes), despite the whiff of gas. She did say I could be with them at the end if I insisted, but that they tended to find it distressed the owner.

 

She left the room with my girls one at a time, and when she came back for the second one she said that one of her colleagues was having a cuddle with the first one! So I was as happy as I could be that they were being well-treated before the end. I can't imagine it ever getting any easier, having to go through that with a beloved pet.

[The Dogmother]

Georgie, over the years I have despatched some myself, another hen was PTS at the vets - she had suspected Marek's and had gone downhill so quickly that by the time I got her there, she was on the way out.

 

Budgies, not all pure breeds go broody, some never do and others seem to be broody most of the summer. Breeds like pekins and silkies are reliably broody and my lavender pekin is about to be consigned to the broody cage for the 2nd time in 2 months. She's had a rest from laying and is now beginning to annoy the other girls. she'll snap out of it soon enough.

[Budgies]

Clare, I've tried to order breeds not known for being particularly broody, but that said a friend has a couple of the same breeds (Light Sussex and Barnevelder) and both of hers are broody at the moment! Guess you never can be entirely sure, there will always be one to prove the rule!!

 

I think you're very brave despatching your own poorly chooks by the way. I sort of wished I was strong enough (emotionally I mean, not physically!) to put my girls out of their misery and save them the long trip to the vets etc - from what I understand it can be quick and painless for the bird. However, I'm not sure I could ever get to that point where it wouldn't hurt me more to do it than them I'm doing it to!! I'm very impressed with the group of you that went on that course recently, hats off to the lot of you!

 

Apologies for the thread hijack