My eco solution to rat problems

[Daphne]

Our garden has 6-7 inches of snow and up to 18 inches in drifts, including near the hive. There is 4-5 inches on various compost bins etc. But on the hive there is just the smallest covering and in some places you can see the galvanised top. I presume this is the heat rising from the colony and therefore a good sign?

[Guest]

That is an appalling sign that so much heat energy is being lost through the roof.

 

Have you not got insulation in the roof of your house? The bees require the same treatment in theirs. In nature those colonies in thin, poorly insulated nests would likely succumb to weather such as this. Those with several centimetres (or more) of wood insulation would have far more chance of survival.

 

The one positive thing is that they are probably still alive. All the energy lost from the hive must be replaced by consuming stores, so you had better heft your hives to check for stores before they starve!.

 

Some things to consider here are: type of floor - solid or OM; top ventilation - too much possibly; top insulation - too little may be very likely.

 

All my hives still have a thick layer of insulating snow on their roof. I am quite happy with that.

 

Regards, RAB

[Daphne]

I shall put some top insulation in tomorrow. The bees were fine during the OA treatment a fortnight ago and we hefted last week - all was well. We'll do it again as soon as we can. Thanks for the reply.

[OXFORDBEE]

That is an appalling sign that so much heat energy is being lost through the roof.

 

I've got colonies wintering with just 12mm of plywood on top. No roof (and with no problems). I do have a few hives rearing brood and these don't have a huge amount of snow on the top of the hives. The only thing to do is make sure the bees are not running short of stores after the mild December we have had. By the way we've had -11 here.

 

I wouldn't panic. Bees have happily survived in worse conditions than these!

[Daphne]

Thank you Oxfordbee; I shall be keeping a close eye on them.

[Guest]

Daphne,

 

And how many colonies do you have? Can you afford to risk losing a colony?

 

Regards, RAB

[Daphne]

Just the one and so no, I can't. I am somewhat soothed by the fact that Oxfordbee has posted to give me a bit of confidence, plus the fact although we have snow everywhere its been plus/minus 1 degree for the past week or so, not worse. However, please don't think I am ignoring your advice; I do want to put some insulation in. We have an extra problem in that I thought we had some polystyrene and/or some ply but in fact we can't find either. We can't get out by car so I can't purchase something to make something right away - do you have any suggestions? When we can eventually get out I shall also be buying some glucose for fondant.

[Guest]

Hi Daphne,

 

In the past, I have used bits of carpet on the coverboard, a super with polystyrene in it. You can use any loose insulation to fill the box (but remember to clean it out before removing the box!). You have to be aware that your coverboard would then be exposed and it needs to be weather-tight - no air gaps or risk of ingress of water - or things can be worse than previous, much worse as there is no cover protection from the roof sides when like this. If I have that confiuration I usually put a strap around the floor and inside the roof to pull everything down securely. Another coverboard would more than double the insulation value, as would a few newspapers. One nuc has a super of wood shavings (smoker fuel) on it at this very moment (was just handy when this cold spell descended on us).

 

As long as they are dry they should be OK, but they are using a lot of extra stores to fuel their central heating. They can get stranded in very cold weather, while in a tight cluster, with lots of unavailable stores in the other end of the hive. Trouble is they only die once! There only needs to be one thing wrong and there are several ways it can happen.

 

If I lose a colony for that reason I am miffed but it is not a 'start again from scratch' scenario for me.

 

In some catalogues there is still reference to 'quilts'. In the golden oldie days these were just that. Nowadays the word is used for almost any cover for the hive which fits under the roof.

 

If this is your first year, your colony may not be as strong as I might make one. I unite a couple of colonies late in the year rather than risk losing one or both in the winter if they are weak. Not only does it help the bees survive the cold months, but also they should get a faster start in the spring with more residula bees (queen can lay more brood without risk of chilling, etc) All these things make beekeeping sooo much easier, with multiple colonies.

 

Regards, RAB

[Daphne]

Thanks for these super-practical tips. As it happens we have just bought 2 other 2nd hand hives which I presume have cover boards (will have to check - they're with a neighbour) so I could use one. If that fails I do have newspaper - just to check, do you mean I can literally put in as many sheets on top of the crownboard as still allows the roof to fit snugly? I hope so, as I fancy a quick in and out with a thin layer of insulation rather than risking a super with bits of polypacking (or something slightly more homemade) in because I'd need help to strap it up and the whole thing would take longer/I need to find a willing beek who is at home! Will it be OK to just go out there and do it (tomorrow now, dark is falling) more or less regardless of temp so long as its dry (we've had snow again today)?

Thank you once again

[Queen Bee]

Daphne

 

Do not worry!

Bee colonies do NOT die because they are cold.

Bee colonies die during the winter because of damp/condensation, disease, lack of stores.

 

They need plenty of ventilation through their colony, so if you have put insulation in, make sure that you have raised the crown board by inserting 4 matchsticks at the corners to allow a good flow of air around the colony.

All our colonies are on OM floors and never have any insulation at all as it can cause condensation. Feral colonies live in drafty trees, shrubs and chimeys.

 

Make sure you have done the oxalic acid and if you suspect nosema there will be time to use Fumidil B in the Spring when you change to new combs (Bailley Comb Exchange). Always best to give bees new foundation every spring in the brood body, the Q then lays like the clappers to provide more bees to build and these bees they then fly to provide the harvest!

 

You can always put a slice of fondant on the hole in the crownboard now. if they want it they will take it. They were active well into November so may have consumed stores then.

 

Good luck

 

'The bees always know best'.

[widdershins]

Well said Queen Bee

[Guest]

Daphne,

 

I will pm you, regarding the removed post to explain my position.

 

Regards, RAB

[Sheilaz]

Daphne,

 

I will pm you, regarding the removed post to explain my position.

 

Regards, RAB

 

Ah, just needed reminding to put the relevant part back! This is the info. that RAB imparted;

A well insulated wooden hive with bottom ventilation emulates the polyhive's brilliant insulation properties. Keep your bees warm and dry. They will build up earlier in the spring. They will use less stores to keep themselves warm and so will be less likely to starve in the later part of the winter. There is no rocket science here, just simple basic principles, to do with energy balance, dew points, metabolic rates, U values of materials, temperature gradients, and etc.

Consider why bees in polyhives raise brood on the outermost sides of the outermost frames.

[Finman]

Bee colonies do NOT die because they are cold.

!

 

Surely they die. They consume more food and die short of food.

 

They need plenty of ventilation through their colony, so if you have put insulation in, make sure that you have raised the crown board by inserting 4 matchsticks at the corners to allow a good flow of air around the colony.

 

Bees need enough ventilation. Not at least more than in summer.

 

All our colonies are on OM floors and never have any insulation at all as it can cause condensation. Feral colonies live in drafty trees, shrubs and chimeys.

 

 

English beekeeprs do not much understand about insulation or condensation.

I am from Finland and in Jaunuary I have had often -30C fros and just now there is 70 cm snow. I live in capital city and my hives are 100 miles away in they own peace.

 

Ventilation waste energy, but ventilaiton must be enough to change fresh air abotr moisture which come from respiration. Frm 20 kg winter food we get 8 kg water as respiration.

 

When you are in cold car, you see that condensation happens on windows.

Condensation happens on coldest surfaces, so you must add upper insulation that it keeps the heat. Insulation happens on sidewalls or onto bottom board.

[Finman]

Oliver90owner wrote;

A well insulated wooden hive with bottom ventilation emulates the polyhive's brilliant insulation properties. Keep your bees warm and dry. They will build up earlier in the spring. They will use less stores to keep themselves warm and so will be less likely to starve in the later part of the winter. There is no rocket science here, just simple basic principles, to do with energy balance, dew points, metabolic rates, U values of materials, temperature gradients, and etc.

Consider why bees in polyhives raise brood on the outermost sides of the outermost frames.

 

 

It looks like experience + knowledge is talking. So it is.

[Guest]

Finman,

 

Good to see some real experience of cold weather conditions on the forum.

 

Regards, RAB

[Finman]

Moisture blug

 

On another hand Queen bee is right. If insulation has made wrong, it makes moisture plug and gather water inside insulation. That plug makes tree hive rotten too.

 

Moiture plug means that water penetrate the hive material and in colder side there is non water permealble insulation layer. Condensation happens then in the dew point and inside the material.

 

When you put the insulation on the inner cover , use materail which let moisture move through and then above that insulation it need to be ventilated air gap about 2 inch.

 

If you wrap the hive with plastic, it is surely an ordinary moisture packet.

 

I use road construction geotextile. It breathes and give wind and snow cover.

[Melbourne12]

Moisture blug

 

....

 

I use road construction geotextile. It breathes and give wind and snow cover.

 

Now that is an excellent suggestion. Thank you!