MedusA Posted May 6, 2010 Share Posted May 6, 2010 Having created an artificial swarm only a week ago, I checked my hive yesterday and found another sealed queen cell. Created a second artificial swarm for the allotment apiary. I hope they don't make any more queen cells because I'm fast running out of places to put them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 6, 2010 Share Posted May 6, 2010 One post: Sealed queen cells and bees have not swarmed? Or would in 3 days time? a second post: One cell? After artificial swarm? Supercedure? Where on the frame? Sealed? Still eggs in the frames? Sorry but you need to get your books out and read up on supercedure and/or swarming. Bees are likely to swarm as soon as, or shortly after, the first queen cell is capped. Usually only inclement weather will postpone the exodus. So the experienced beek is.....but it is all relative.... An artificial swarm will not swarm after 7 days. Tops one frame of sealed brood, mainly flying bees, foundation to draw. Just get real, it will never happen unless the bees are really stupid. If the queen cell was a swarm cell and sealed, they would have been away. If she is still laying by now, the position, number and her presence should indicate supercedure. That means the bees are simply attempting to replace an old, damaged or failing queen. So you better be ready as they will most likely build some more. You will likely run out of bees shortly, too. Beekeeping is made hard by beginners not knowing the bee rules or describing correcly their actions (especially to other new beeks). Even the bees do not follow rules actually, they just follow their instincts. They actually usually know best. RAB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenanne Posted May 6, 2010 Share Posted May 6, 2010 I personally think that swarming is invariably the first thing that springs to mind when you see a QC, more so when you'd just done an AS so recently. Be pleased that you spotted it, but I'm not sure what you would do next: leave well alone, or think about combining old and new colonies from your second AS? I have heard of bees building further QC after an AS, but this seems to only be when more than one frame of brood is put in with them (which isn't considered the best way of doing an AS) and if they are very swarmy by nature. It would be so much more convenient if the little buzzers could talk! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OXFORDBEE Posted May 8, 2010 Share Posted May 8, 2010 Sorry but you need to get your books out and read up on supercedure and/or swarming. A lot of swarming commences with a couple of superceedure cells; the bees subsequently change their minds if there is good weather and a strong nectar flow. They raise more queen cells and swarm. An artificial swarm will not swarm after 7 days. Tops one frame of sealed brood, mainly flying bees, foundation to draw. Just get real, it will never happen unless the bees are really stupid. If the bee still want to leave after being artificially swarmed they will raise another set of queen cells in the artifical swarm. It can ... and does happen. ... If she is still laying by now .. Queens can continue laying up untill the point the swarm issues. Note: egg laying will be very much reduced but the queen will still be laying eggs up untill the point the swarm issues. I have heard of bees building further QC after an AS, but this seems to only be when more than one frame of brood is put in with them This is not the case. Make up an artifical swarm with bees hell bent on swarming and they will raise another set of queen cells on the single frame provided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedusA Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 Apologies for any confusion, I think I didn't make myself at all clear. We created the first "artificial swarm" by taking out a frame with 2 unsealed queen cells, another frame of brood and one of stores and put them in a nuc. I know this is an alternative to a true artificial swarm, but it's one of the swarm control methods used by our BKA so I thought it was worth a try. One of the queen cells is now sealed and the other seems to have disappeared so it seems the bees have decided who will be queen in that mini-colony. The second nuc was created from what was (I assume) a queen cell I missed during the first inspection so, as my colony is very strong, we thought it would be worth trying for another nuc. My original colony and queen seem to be getting on with business as usual (so far that is). Maybe I was just lucky or maybe it may still all go horribly wrong. It's all part of the beekeeping experience. I do appreciate all the advice on here from the more experienced beekeepers, so please keep it coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Caught my first swarm yesterday! My friend has been my 'bee buddy' and did most of the inspections with me last year, and recently she decided to get her own hive. She's been on the list for a swarm, but nothing has come up locally. Yesterday a friend of hers rang to say he was on the local nature reserve, and he'd seen a swarm of bees in a tree ... it sounded too good to be true, but we trotted off there with a sheet, a stout cardboard box and a copy of Ted Hooper, and sure enough there was a small swarm on a scrub hawthorn. We spread out the sheet, put the box underneath and shook it, and lots of bees fell into the box. We were just feeling a bit smug when I noticed the queen on the edge of the sheet, and as we watched she took off and went spiralling up into the sky. Oops! Fortunately these bees had read the book, and exactly as Ted Hooper advises, they resettled in the same spot a few minutes later, and we repeated the exercise and then inverted the box, and watched while they crawled down the trunk of the tree and into the box. It's lucky she'd got the hive made up as it was nearly dark by the time we got to her apiary - I've been handling bees for a year now, but this was a totally different experience as the swarm was sort of like treacle or syrup - they poured out of the box in a viscous mass, quite different to opening my hive and seeing bees flying. Fingers crossed that they will stay, she's going to check tomorrow and then put a feed on. I can't describe how exciting it was - I don't think I'll ever forget this, no matter how many years I keep bees! Now I'm hoping for another swarm to start my second colony. I feel like a real beekeeper now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Wow. Well done Olly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheilaz Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 That was really exciting to read too, Olly. LSH & I are learning such a lot just reading this section, in preparation for years to come hopefully. Great work, here's to the next one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Speckled Hen Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Oh well done. DH is putting the finishing touches to a top bar hive which will go in the bottom of the garden as a bait hive. I've always fancied keeping bees this way. Fingers crossed that they will stay, she's going to check tomorrow and then put a feed on. Could you try a queen excluder on the floor for two or three days? A frame of uncapped brood would keep them in as well. ............................my book says Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedusA Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 How exciting for you Olly. My beekeeping friend had her first swarm on my birthday, and I had an emergency call to help her with it. It was a real experience. We've collected more swarms since but nothing compares to that first one. Good luck with getting your own second colony. We've now got 4 colonies between us at the allotment apiary. I seem to have done nothing else lately except make up flat-pack hive parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daphne Posted June 1, 2010 Author Share Posted June 1, 2010 Very well done - it is fascinating isn't it I've been given the QEx tip but not used it myself. Dribbling some of the feed onto the frames is supposed to help to - so they know there is food there and apparently it encourages frame building as well. Keep us informed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 Well she checked them this morning, they were still there but in her words 'rather dopey'. She's going to put a feed on anyway. It is so exciting collecting a swarm, Daphne - reassuring to hear you've collected many others since, it was such a great experience I want to try again! A word of warning, we were careful to wear bee-suits even though the swarm was quite docile. Yesterday I decided not to inspect my hive because the weather had been bad, and I thought they'd be a bit moody, but I went to have a look outside it to see if they were bringing any pollen in. I didn't bother putting a veil on, as I wasn't intending to do more than just observe from a couple of feet away. My mistake - I got smacked on the eyebrow by a rather tetchy bee - it stung straight away, I hadn't brushed it or anything - and today I have a very fat face, and feel as if I'm peering through a letter-box! Just my bad luck I think, but worth remembering that in bad weather they may be rather bad-tempered! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daphne Posted June 1, 2010 Author Share Posted June 1, 2010 Ouch Over on the other forum there are quite a few tales of woe regarding stings - even to very experienced people who've been working with them for years. I've noticed a few bees flying into my hair whilst I've been minding my own business in other parts of the garden which makes me go rigid. I have to say I am diligent about suiting up to do anything with them, but like you I have an observation spot about 8-10 feet away from both my hives where I dress normally just to see if they are still flying and with what; so yes, it is timely and good advice - which I shall take seriously. Having swarmed, our original hive is now much calmer than it was last year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 Oh heck Olly. Hope you are OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Speckled Hen Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Hope you are better this morning.Olly. Stings to the face always swell badly Will your friend treat her swarm with oxalic? I put my varroa board underneath my nuc for a day and found three mites so I will do a proper week's count after the next inspection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 The swelling is going down, I can open both eyes now but I'm still wearing dark glasses! It's been an interesting experience. She put a feed on, and today the bees are flying she reports - so it was just the weather yesterday making them a bit sluggish. A good point about varroa treatment, I hadn't considered that yet. At the moment, she is just relieved they have stayed put! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Speckled Hen Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Ideal time as there is no brood edited...PS cut a small piece of queen excluder and put it over the entrance to stop them decamping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
