My eco solution to rat problems

[EllieFRG]

I’m hoping for some suggestions on what might be wrong with my chickens. I'm a first time chicken keepers and have 3 hybrid chickens, 2years old, who are free range. For the first 9 months they were prolific layers but a year ago their eggs stopped except very occasional soft shelled. Other observations are they haven’t properly moulted although are quite bare on their underside, often have runny poos which cake their feathers and have very sharp bony sternums. But they seem quite happy! They are on a pellet feed, have grit, free range, lots of sunshine, have a cider vinegar in their water. I’ve sent poo samples to establish if they have worms which came back negative. I’m loath to pay for 3 otherwise healthy chickens to go to the vets.

Does any one have any ideas what’s up with them?!

[Cat tails]

On 5/12/2022 at 10:18 AM, EllieFRG said:

I’m hoping for some suggestions on what might be wrong with my chickens. I'm a first time chicken keepers and have 3 hybrid chickens, 2years old, who are free range. For the first 9 months they were prolific layers but a year ago their eggs stopped except very occasional soft shelled. Other observations are they haven’t properly moulted although are quite bare on their underside, often have runny poos which cake their feathers and have very sharp bony sternums. But they seem quite happy! They are on a pellet feed, have grit, free range, lots of sunshine, have a cider vinegar in their water. I’ve sent poo samples to establish if they have worms which came back negative. I’m loath to pay for 3 otherwise healthy chickens to go to the vets.

Does any one have any ideas what’s up with them?!

I seem to remember that @Beantree says that too much vinegar in the water can affect egg quality. Bony sternums aren’t unusual in laying hens. They put all their energy in eggs and not in making chicken breasts.

[Beantree]

Vinegar in their water should be a maximum of 1% and only once a month, so one drinker. In the hot weather I wouldn't give them any as it discourages drinking. The Calcium for the egg shells comes from a store in their bones. If the feed isn't good they will exhaust the store, so what you need is good quality (so not the cheapest) layers pellets with 17% protein and an 8:1 mix of calcium and phosphorous. Usually layers have 3% Calcium, so that would be about 0.4% Phosphorous. That ratio is required to put the calcium back into the bones and then to the eggs.

Stopping laying so soon and poor moulting points to a feed deficiency of protein. Are they free ranging before they fill up with pellets? We had this problem early on when we let the hens out to free range too soon in the day. The result was they filled up with 'rubbish' and the egg production halved. We then kept them in the run until they had full crops of pellets before letting them out.

[EllieFRG]

Thanks very much for replies @Beantree and @Cat tails. 

I've given them too much vinegar in the past I know, in an attempt to purge them of whatever ails them. Now they haven't been having more than you said - having got demoralised about its healing powers! - unless overdosing can have long term effects?

I've been feeding them 'smallholder range feed natural free range layers pellets' which have a 16% protein, and 3.8% calcium to 0.7% phosphorus. That's not quite the ratio you advised, although not far off. Is there a brand you recommend over this? With the bird flu they've been shut in for a few months so living off majority layer pellets. Good suggestion about  not letting them out too early though - I'll do that.

The only other thing was in the autumn I found grain mites in their pellets. I threw the lot away and sterilised everything and haven't seen them since. I read that they shouldnt cause long term damage but still wondering if that could be the cause? 

Thanks again!

[Beantree]

We don't use ACV at all @EllieFRG; complete waste of time and money in my opinion. Whether there are any long term effects I don't know, but used continuously it changes the acidity of the gut flora and it may take some time for normal healthy gut flora to re-eastablish? Nothing wrong with your pellets. We used them for years in the UK without any problems I can recall. We used to 'bulk buy' 500Kg at a time, which worked out at £10 a bag including delivery, but that was 10 years ago. Giving them treats with a low protein level does, in effect, reduce their overall protein intake. We give our layers a scattered grain treat in the evening, but we add sunflower hearts to bring the protein level up to what they require. Works out at 3 scoops of mixed grain to 1 scoop of sunflower hearts, but I have to admit with the ridiculous price of sunflower hearts here I've gone down to half a scoop. If the price keeps going up they will just get a much smaller amount of grain.

We get grain mites in the pellets here. Judging by what other things they eat I can't see a few mites causing a problem

[EllieFRG]

Thanks @Beantree. I will bin the vinegar then since at the best it clearly isn't helping and at worst might be causing harm. I'll give some sunflower hearts a try with the corn they have in the evening, for just 3 chickens its worth paying out if that solves things. Here's hoping that is elixir that will sort them out!

Having a little look on line about other sources of protein I have read about people feeding them everything from cooked eggs to fish to meal worms  - is that advisable?!

[Beantree]

When we were rearing in the Dordogne we bought some rearers pellets from the local store. After a few days the stench from that area was truly absolutely unbelievable. Turns out the protein in the feed was based on fish, so whatever you do don't feed them that because you will have Environmental Health Department all over you!

We've fed ours on scrambled eggs when we had a glut and no buyers; no ill effects and they love it. Meal worms is a great idea and plenty of people buy them, but aren't they a bit expensive?

[EllieFRG]

Right, fish is off the menu then! Scrambled eggs and pumpkin seeds it is. I don't mind spending a bit of money on them - it cant be more than buying my eggs from the shops while I keep the girls in room and board for no return 🙄

Thanks again for the advice.