Liam Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Hello. Just wondering if anyone knows what might be wrong with Madge? She was fine until yesterday late afternoon, when I noticed she was making a movement which is what I would imagine a chicken trying to be sick would look like - moving her neck outwards, whilst her crop "wobbled" up and down - but she wasn't sick! I wasn't too worried yesterday as she looked fine in every other aspect. Today, she seems a little quiet, but is still eating a bit of grass and other stuff on the floor - (not pellets from the peanut feeder though, as far as i've seen.) She is also taking in a bit of water. However, I picker her up and she has a large crop, but it's squidgey, like its full of water mixed in with the food? Where as if she is full, it should be hard shouldn't it? I picked up the others and their crops have emptied overnight, like they should. Does this sound like sour crop or impacted crop? Any ideas on how to treat it, or what causes it? The other two seem fine. I will see if I can find out about what it might be on the internet, and what I can do, but if anyone could confirm what they think I'd really appreciate it. I am about to phone the boss to say I can't come in today, my chicken is ill,so wish me luck....!! Liam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lisa33 Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 I've not had any experience with this, but just wanted to say that I hope she's allright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Sounds as if it could be sour crop. Sometimes one leads to the other. Try plenty of massage first of all. A swig of olive oil might just soften things. If you can get her to eat some probiotic yoghurt that might help sort out the sourness and counteract any fungal infection that might be brewing. If you can get to an anglers shop, buy half a pint of undyed maggots and give her a dozen or so several times a day. She will enjoy them, and the ones that go down whole can often bore theu way through the impaction and shift it. It can take a while though. The massage is very important. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted April 28, 2008 Author Share Posted April 28, 2008 Thanks for the very quick replies, and the advice, Eglutine! Well it's a good job I will be off work today then - massage, yogurt, and maggots it is! There is an angling shop in the next village so that's where I will be at 9am. Thanks for all your help so early in the morning! Liam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 That sounds to me like serious sour crop. The neck movements are the hen's attempts to get rid of the back flow of fluid from the crop. Does it smell horrible? It should if it's sour. The maggots may help if there's a blockage. For massage, tip her upside down and massage the crop towards the head. If you're lucky she may bring up some fluid and relieve her symptoms. My Kelly currently has similar problems, but has been diagnosed with a lump which is probably growing over the exit sphincter in the crop. Her fluid is not infected fortunately, but she can't get rid of it. Crops have no tone/muscle so it is better to get your hen treated quickly so that the crop doesn't distend and become saggy. (This would lead to ongoing problems with digestion) I really hope Madge gets better soon. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theherd123 Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 I agree, it does sound like sour crop. If possible bring her indoors so you can keep a closer eye on her. I would strongly advise you flush out her crop as this will ease the stress on her as she is obviously having problems processing what is in there at the minute. Do as Ginnete has suggested and either turn her upside down (very gently) and massage her crop OR making sure you have both wings under control lean her quite far forward and massage her crop from the bottom to the top - with both methods be firm but gentle. WARNING - do not hold her in this position for longer than 8-10 seconds as she may aspirate. The pro-biotic yoghurt and maggots will do her the world of good and if you can get your hands on some Avipro you can add this to her drinking water again its a pro-biotic. Do let us know how she gets on and dont hesitate to post again if you need more help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted April 28, 2008 Author Share Posted April 28, 2008 Thanks for all the responses everyone. This morning, I did the massage many times, finally got some olive oil into her (ruined a good t-shirt in the process!!), and probiotic yoghurt. Got the maggots, she loves them! Then thought, I really would feel better if she went to the vet... so off we went. They were amused that anyone would name a chicken Madge, but were really helpful and said that all that I had done was correct, to keep on with that. He said he didn't think drugs were a good idea at ths stage, as they can cause more problems than they solve. He also mentioned surgery (!!), literally cutting the crop open, but this will make her very poorly for quite a while and I don't feel that it would be fair. Incidentally her breath definitely doesn't smell - I have checked and so has the vet - we think it is still in early ish stages, as she was definitely OK Saturday evening when I picked her up. The vet says the smell develops later, I guess as the food in her crop rots. She is still bright, alert, feeding and drinking well, and I`ve seen this from inside the house so she isn't just doing it for my benefit. She laid this morning too!! I`ve just been to check on her and the crop is still in a similar state, and whilst I was there she did do the neck movement thing again. I don't fancy this upside-down manoveur personally, given that it can choke them but I am going to try it anyway in the morning, and as suggested above, just for a few seconds at a time. It does make sense to try to get some of it out, and this would be a logical way. I really hope she will be OK, she is a lovely hen and I will be gutted if we don't get through this...only had her a few weeks but it doesn't matter does it, she's still mine! Thanks for all youe help - would have been even more stuck without all your advice, hoping it ends happily... Liam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Fingers crossed. It was reassuring to hear that the advice we all gave was right! Keep up the good work and I'm sure you will get her through it. Shame about the t shirt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hen Watch Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Hi Liam. Hope Madge gets better soon. Some useful info on Sour Crop on the sticky in this section. http://club.omlet.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5334 I've been looking after one of mine with either impacted or sour crop (not sure which) and after a few weeks the crop seems to be getting better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 For future reference, in case it may be necessary, our vet drained the crop with a syringe. The contents were liquid and our hen felt so much better afterwards. It also enabled the vet to feel more closely into the crop and diagnose a tumour. I hope Madge continues to improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickaboo Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 For future reference also, Daphne was crop bound and had to have a operation to open it up and have contents removed, and she has made a full recovery . I too did the oil and massage thing but to no effect, if it happens again I'd be straight to the vets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted April 30, 2008 Author Share Posted April 30, 2008 Morning, Just a quick update. She still has the problem, but looks perky this morning, and the crop has gone down a little bit... we have together mastered the technique of making her sick, which isn't as bad as I had envisaged - she seems to know it's doing her good and is co-operative! Only a little comes out each time though, and it stinks like you would not believe. Still going with the yogurt and maggots too. So keeping a close eye on her and carrying on with the treatment as the vet, and omleteers advise! Will keep you all posted. Incidentally, is it OK to give maggots to chickens who aren't ill as a treat? They absolutely love them and go crazy at just the sight of the tub I`ve got them in! Thanks Liam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 . Incidentally, is it OK to give maggots to chickens who aren't ill as a treat? They absolutely love them and go crazy at just the sight of the tub I`ve got them in! It is an excellent source of protein! Mine go mad for them. Good to hear that she is perkier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 All of mine enjoyed the maggots when Kelly needed them. No harm at all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted May 3, 2008 Author Share Posted May 3, 2008 Hello all. Just a quick update on Madge.. not looking great unfortunately. Despite all the massage, olive oil, yogurt, maggots, and massaging out some of what's in there, she is no better. In fact, she's a worse, as she's feeling sorry for herself, and looks fed up. Her comb has gone all lifeless, where it was red and bright. I feel I am doing all I can, I`ve been making her sick three times a day, and she is a bit brighter for a bit afterwards, but it's a big bulge she's got there (about cricket ball size), and even if we resolve this I wonder if the crop has stretched so much she will continue to have problems? If there's no change over the next few days, I think the kindest thing is going to be a trip to the vets. I don't like to see animals suffer and I she is now. I`ll let you know what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lisa33 Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 I'm sorry to hear she's still not well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 Liam, I am sorry to hear about Madge. I know what you mean about the suffering. Kelly had a lump over the exit of her crop, so her digested food could not get out. At her worst, both wings would drop to the floor coupled with extreme neck movements. As I said, we persuaded the vet to drain thbe crop externally with a syringe. This allowed her to feel the crop properly and identify the lump. I feel that the neck movement somehow lifted the lump enough to allow something through, because although Kelly had wasted away, she was still bright and definitely not dehydrated. I really hope that Madge hasn't got the same as Kelly and you vet can help her get better. If she/he can't, then sadly you will have to decide what to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah-Louise Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 my little ginger hennie is just the same at the moment, I'm really very worried about her. She is very listless, not eating, but drinking lots of water. She spent most of yesterday sitting on my lap. I mannaged to clear her crop a bit yesterday, with the upside down and massage technique, she perked up a bit for a while. but wasn't at all well when I put her to bed last night. I'm just off to see how she is now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oolalula Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Haven't they tried putting her on nystatin? It's an antifungal and in my experience, sour crop can be bacterial or more commonly fungal. Our hen had repeated bouts of sour crop, each time we treated with nystatin it cleared up completely. Baytril is the antibiotic that can exascerbate a fungal infection in the crop. You should both really speak to your vets about getting Nystatin into your girls. All you need is a prescription and then you can readily pick it up from the chemist. It does a lot of good and I'm amazed it's overlooked sometimes. Unfortuntaley my hen had sour crop repeatedly due to an underlying Lymphoid Leukosis problem, but this isn't necessarily the case for other hens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah-Louise Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Thanks, Oolalula, I'll try that. Thankfully she slightly better this morning, and ran out of the eglu to see me when I called her and has been eating a bit and pecking at grit, which she wouldn't do yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kairen Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Our Cinnamon-Amber has now had this large soft squiggy crop for about 2 1/2 weeks. We are still trying 1. olive oil 2. massaging 3. maggots 4.trying to make her vomit but have not achieved it at all 5. Yoghurt. Unfortunately the crop does not seem to be responding to the treatment. She seems happy in herself and is laying. Does anyone know how long it takes to claar? We really don't want to go to the vet....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah-Louise Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 My Little ginger hennie, seems worse today-like your Cinnamon Amber, Kairen, she has a large squidgy crop. but she isn't interested in food except worms, which I've been digging up for her, very listless, just stood all day in almost the same spot in the garden. I've managded to get some oil and liquid down her, and done the massage bit. It doesn't seem to be helping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Sarah Louise and Kairen, if you are making little progress with your poorly girls. a trip to the vets is needed. Liam....don't lose hope....the vet might be able to help. Fingers crossed for you all.....but I would take them sooner rather than later as they will be losing weight and their ability to fight with each passing day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theherd123 Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Liam i have also done the following for a hen with sour crop and it may help Marge. Get a cup of warm not hot water and place some bicarb of soda into it - about 1/2 a teaspoon. Mix it up and syringe some into Marge 2ml if you can) massage the crop gently and then make her sick. I believe the bicarb helps to neutralise what is in the crop and then feeing her probiotic yoghurt will help the good bacteria establish again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted May 5, 2008 Author Share Posted May 5, 2008 Thanks all for your continuing support. Madge is not making any real progress yet, but is still with us and isn't looking any worse either. I will try the bicarb of soda trick tomorrow at our regular 6am "sick" session... (I can only imagine what the neighbours think..!!) I'll take her back to the vets too, I'm thinking that maybe they can syringe it out a lot quicker than this upside-down sick manoveur - when she is sick it's only quite a small amount at a time. The other two are being really nice to her, she is the top chicken and they aren't using this as an reason to challenge her position - and still respecting her authority at maggot feeding time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
