Is my pekin bantam male or female?

[sheik]

Yesterday afternoon we went to Thorne's and collected the new chicken talked about here : viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31441

 

She is a yellow sablepoot bantam, called Saffron / Saffy, and she is *tiny*:

(these pictures are quite drab, but still don't capture the torrential rain and overall rubbish weather I'm sure most of us are experiencing now!)

 

 

We've never done an introduction before, so are learning as we go along. We're lucky though in that Tony from Aviaries4u has made us a prototype movable run, which gives us a convenient way of isolating her in our existing run.

 

We spoke to Carl for advice and once he knew about the inner run he suggested putting her straight in with Pootle (our white silkie) and keeping the other two larger birds out in the main run. He did warn us there would be pecking, and he was right .

However, it wasn't too bad, and Saffron didn't seem overly agitated by it.

However, we don't like seeing it, so we moved Pootle out after about an hour to let her feed in peace. It wasn't helped by the fact that Pootle is broody at the moment and was getting stressed in confinement as she just wanted to get back to her eglu.

 

Pootle towers over the poor thing, and Pootle is pretty small herself!

 

 

We don't have a spare eglu or equivalent, so once it got dark we picked up Saffy from the little cardboard box with straw that we'd given her and put her into the eglu with the others. We then woke up at 6am (unprecedented for me!) to let her out to stop any morning pecking. She seemed fine, although had somehow moved from being at the front door to being in the far right corner at the back.

I didn't put her in her own run straight away, I just let her sit on the eglu platform and stroked her and fed her some growers mash from my hand, and she seems happy enough.

 

It is interesting, as adding a new chicken has completely upset the social dynamic of our once peaceful trio. Pootle was turning on the other two when they tried to feed, which she hasn't done since they were pullets. It's amazing that she is currently the "top chicken" too, as she has terrible eyesight (due to her hair!) and isn't confident at all when they go out into the main garden. In fact, the whole reason we wanted another bantam was to keep her company!

She is still broody though and after her breakfast she's gone back into the eglu for the day (I'll keep lifting her out, but it's pretty futile).

 

This afternoon I am going to try putting Flumpy (our massive speckled hybrid) in with Saffron for a bit. She is intensely curious at the best of times, and is clearly desperate to get to the new arrival. If there's any trouble though I'll move her out again, as she's way too big to be pecking such a small bird.

 

Unfortunately, this is an extremely wet and miserable week for introducing a new chicken - hopefully it will pick up a bit so they can get their normal free-ranging, otherwise that is just going to add to the stress.

 

The Sablepoot bantam batch that Saffron came from are going on sale today at Thorne's - they have orange and lemon ones. I think they have new sultans and a few other breeds ready too. They'll go quickly so if you want to look this weekend is the time to do it!

 

By the way, Tony's moveable run product folds down flat once it is no longer needed and he delivers nationwide. It is ready for sale now, but I don't think he has worked out the price yet so you'd need to mail him. Details here:

http://www.aviaries4u.co.uk/chicken_run_customisations.htm#moveable_run

usual disclaimer: I designed and maintain his site, (which is why pics of my chickens are all over it!) but have no other connection to his business)

 

/\dam

[Chickvic]

She is gorgeous! Hope Saffy and Flumpy get on ok!

[Egluntyne]

She is a beauty.

 

Your moveable run is a super idea.

 

I love the picture with the two big girls eyeing up the bantams.

 

Edited to correct spelling mistake.

Edited September 6, 2008 by Guest

[lisa33]

She's very cute. I might have to pop over to Thornes and have a look.

 

I'm sure I need some (more) food or (more) grit or something

 

[sheik]

If you see Carl please tell him Adam's sablepoot is doing OK .

 

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[abwsco]

She looks gorgeous

 

The moveable run is fab as well. It's great to see that Tony is now able to offer nationwide delivery as he wasn't able to when I contacted him in March.

[sheik]

Well it's day 5 now and I think that sadly there is still some way to go before we have peace.

I'm not using the inner run to put two in together any more as it is too stressful for our original chickens - they just want to get out and get agitated.

So, I've been putting two out to free range and letting Saffy out in the main run with one on her own.

Pootle is OK with her, she pecks her if Saffy gets too close but there is no real chance of damage.

 

Unfortunately Flumpy and especially Luna are another matter .

 

Flumpy will chase her and administer very hard pecks if she gets close, but will otherwise ignore her. Due to Saffy's size this means I have to supervise them all the time.

Luna is by far the worst though, and will mercilessly hunt her down wherever she is. She is much more competent at doing damage as well, as she lands on her with her claws and then tries to rip chunks out of her with her beak. I've been putting my hands between them and have experienced first hand what these pecks are like...

Saffron is very good at flying though, and can jump on top of the Eglu and then on top of the new inner run, which the others can't do. I still won't leave her unsupervised though.

 

I have about 5 or 6 feeder stations in the run too, so at least she can grab some food as she is being chased around, poor thing .

 

When they are not in together, I try and make them eat facing each other, based on Carl from Thorne's advice. The idea I think is that eventually their features get imprinted in their brains and they don't view them as a threat to the available food source.

 

Saffron is ridiculously adorable, and treats me like a surrogate mother. She hops onto my hand, she's jumped onto my back(!) and is completely and utterly tame at the moment. For example, last night I carried her into the house while she was perched on my hand - I didn't need to hold her wings or anything (at night we keep her indoors until it gets pitch black and then take her back out to sleep in the Eglu).

Ironically, Luna was nearly this tame when she was a pullet and getting bullied too. Now she is the head chicken and is not easy to pick up at all .

 

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[abwsco]

How old is Saffy? When I got our then 12 week olds I was told not to let them meet the older ones until they were of similar size or around 18 week olds. Mine are now nearly 16 weeks old and they have had some free ranging with the big ones but there is no way they could be in the run together yet.

 

Could you get another one of Saffy's size to keep her company and to try and integrate 2 new ones or is that not possible?

 

This is the 2nd lot of integrations we've done and the only way we've managed it is by letting the older ones out into the garden all day and keep the new ones in the run.

[sheik]

We don't have any room for new chickens.

Thorne's knew the size of the chickens we already have and told us it would be fine. I'm not sure how old Saffron is, but she is a bantam so is very small. We just weighed her this evening and she is about 14oz. She must have put a few ounces on since we got her though.

 

Flumpy and Pootle were both much better with her today, but my hands are taking a heavy toll from Luna when I protect Saffron from her pecks (I am developing ninja-like reflexes and not one Luna-peck got past me today!). She is definitely out to do her serious harm, and my worry is I'm going to have to look at bumper bits if things don't improve in the next week or so. Although, even a bumper bit wouldn't be ideal for protection, as she tries to barge and claw her as well .

 

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Edited September 9, 2008 by Guest

[abwsco]

Adam, how about putting Luna in the moveable run bit for a time during the day? The other things to try are picking her up and carry her around the minute she goes for Saffy or pushing down on her like a cockerel would. Also, just thought have you tried spraying them all with an anti-pecking spray so they smell the same.

 

Hope it gets easier soon. Mine have had some free ranging time together again and there's still been some chasing and pecking. I've been out with them since 6pm so am bliddy freezing!

[sheik]

Thanks for the suggestions.

Saffron is in the moveable run area for most of the day, as I have to work so can't spend as much time with her as I would like. They all eat together facing each other thrrough the weldmesh.

Today she's had about 90 minutes in the main run with me supervising.

 

Every time Luna pecks at her and I block it I give her a sharp prod with my finger to, as you say, try and emulate a cockerel. I'll try pushing down on her now too.

 

If things don't improve I'll look at the spray solution too.

 

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[lisa33]

She is very lovely Adam.

 

I did let Carl know how you were getting on at the weekend.

[eggypeggy]

I'm going through my 1st integration too.. keeping newies and oldies completely seperate though as I started by putting my newies in the eglu at night all together, but the big one eventually drew blood, so had to take them out and now they have alternative accomodation in the shed at night and they are in the run during the day...Everyone happy.

 

My two oldies though I've never seen them dart around so fast.. it's like they have a new lease of life.. I can tell already see who is going to be the boss.. so will tread carefully when re-introduction.

So good luck with your intro, and fingers crossed they'll all be together in time.

V

[MedusA]

Saffron is very beautiful, Adam.

 

Re introducing her - I was advised not to start introducing my 10-week old Araucanas until they were 18 weeks. I had the 2 of them in a separate eglu run within the walk-in run for 8 weeks, to get the other girls used to them being around.

 

I started introductions last week and there were still some squabbles, but much better than suddenly introducing new hens. They are almost integrated now, but still keep out of the reach of the big girls and Squib. Muggle, on the other hand, keeps away from them. She is definitely bottom hen!

 

Despite several feeding stations, I'm still giving the Araucanas some time out in their separate run just before bedtime, to make sure they get full crops, but I don't think I'll need to do that for much longer.

 

Good luck with introducing Saffron. All your girls look lovely. I have a really soft spot for Silkies too, even though Muggle and Squib's hairdo's look like they've been gelled into spikes these days.

[chelsea]

saffron is beautiful, am very

 

im sure with all your hard work and perserverance with the integration they will soon all be friends

[sheik]

Thanks for the nice comments.

We're letting Saffron out with the others for supervised free-ranging now.

I am confident enough to leave her in the main run with Flumpy and Pootle unsupervised - not because they won't try and peck her but because she is getting more familiar with the run so can escape more easily.

Luna is still the biggest problem . She jealously guards the eglu at night, so we still have to sneak Saffy in at about 10pm to keep her safe.

 

I phoned Thorne's today and learned that even though she is tiny, she was actually 18 weeks old when we took her.

She put on an ounce and a half yesterday, so hopefully she'll be big enough to stand up for herself soon .

 

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[abwsco]

Glad to read that things are getting better Adam

 

My 4 have had more time free ranging with the others today and there has been less pecking and chasing. Mine won't be in the run together until they've all decided to sleep in the coop.

[beach chick]

Saffron is a beautiful bird! hope the integration continues to go well. what breed is she? I realise bantam, but she has lovely markings...

[sheik]

She's a lemon sablepoot, they had orange ones too.

 

Does anyone have an idea of when she'll start laying?

 

/\dam

[beach chick]

I've heard about 30 weeks and/or Christmas for banties... mine are now 22 weeks, so we'll see. I've also read that banties are not v. reliable layers, but they do make good mothers (as one of ours has turned out to be a boy, perhaps we'll see!)

[sheik]

Nearly two weeks in and my nerves are completely shot .

Still getting up at dawn every morning to let them out as I don't want her shut in an Eglu with Luna and Flumpy once it gets light.

 

We've now removed the inner run and added a few new objects to give Saffy places to find sanctuary, eg a wooden chair. Things are getting better in that I can leave them all locked up in the run unsupervised (although in practise I check up on them every hour or so). I certainly couldn't have done that last week.

 

The problem though is that without my intervention Saffron will just perch as high as she can away from food and water for hours, as she is frightened of getting chased. The others leave her alone when she is doing this, but it's obviously not ideal.

 

So, I have to keep going out and moving her to a safe spot with a food and drink station. I want her to eat as much as possible so she'll grow bigger and be less likely to suffer a serious injury.

 

Last night I put her away with the others while it was still light, but had to shield her with my hand for about ten minutes from Luna's pecks. The pecks don't draw blood on me but I would hate to think what they'd do to Saffy's head if one or two landed there, as they are pretty vicious

 

The only slight ray of hope is that Pootle is getting on better with her.

 

This evening I put Saffy in the eglu first at about 5.45pm, and she snuggled in next to Pootle (who lives in the eglu as she is still stubbornly broody). At about 6.10pm I sat out and waited for the other two to go in, and it wasn't pretty

Again, I had to intervene to try and protect her - she was just getting trampled and pecked. The trampling possibly isn't deliberate - they always play "chicken tetris", but Saffy is too small to play...

After about ten minutes they settled down and I checked up on them a little while ago and Saffy's head peered up at me from alongside Pootle's neck, so she's OK.

 

I just really want peace amongst our pets, it's horrible to see Saffron on her own all the time

 

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[sheik]

Here's some recent pics from the weekend. As you can see, there is no obvious sign of injury - and we're trying very hard to keep it that way. Please wish us luck...

 

This illustrates the problem really well - she is only the size of a pigeon!

 

She's happy enough with supervised free-ranging, as she runs over to us for protection if needed.

 

Still really tame...

 

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[sheik]

Just went and checked the Eglu - she's moved away from Pootle and is now in between the two hybrids - not a great place to be bless her

 

You'd think they'd have accepted her by now, it's so annoying - there's about 8 feeding stations around their run now, all filled with their favourite growers mash. They should be enjoying culinary heaven too much to bother with chasing a tiny little newcomer!

 

Actually, I'm just looking at the photo - are chickens supposed to be that round? They look the same shape as the football in Pootle's nest!

 

/\dam

[sheik]

Things were much better today, and Pootle seems to have adopted Saffron as a chick!

She was much happier to be able to sit with a friend and is eating quite well, and behaving more like a chicken rather than cowering on her own.

 

She also went to bed without assistance and tucked herself under Pootle's wing.

 

When the other two went to bed they unfortunately attacked her again - BUT, tonight Pootle absolutely pecked them to pieces. If I wasn't worried about Saffy it would be very funny. Luna was cowering her head after Pootle was through with her. Flumpy ran away and tried to stand up high so Pootle couldn't reach her, and got her toes savagely bitten instead.

This happened four or five times, with Saffy getting feather pulled each time, but getting rescued by Pootle. It was really quite amazing to see...

 

So, still not peace, but at least she seems to have a protector now.

 

I never would have believed chickens could be so fascinating, it's like having an Attenborough documentary in our garden!

 

/\dam

[lisa33]

I'm glad Pootle has adopted her and is looking after her.

 

Hopefully things will settle down a bit now.