eggmayo Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Hi, Hope someone out there can advise me please. How do you work out if you've got enough room to keep bees? I'd love to keep them, but we live in a normal 3 bed semi with a farily small garden that's already home to an Eglu with 3 hens. We don't want to disturb the neighbours with bees. I've heard of people keeping bees on roofs and in really small gardens. Also anyone know if there would be any problems keeping bees and hens relatively close by. I don't want to go on the beekeeping course run by the local club and get all excited about keeping them if I don't have the room to keep them. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesley Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 The best thing would be to ask a local beekeeper to come and look at ylour garden and advise you. Most beekeeping associations will soon be shutting down their apiaries for the winter but you may be able to go along and see how you feel around a few thousand bees - then if you feel you would be able to have bees in your garden you could sign up for a course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kermit Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 The other option is to use an 'out apiary'. In other words find somewhere else to keep them. Many BKA have apiaries for their members who can't keep their bees at home. Alternatively try a local farmer/allotment assoc. Be a bit creative and you should be able to find somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggmayo Posted August 24, 2009 Author Share Posted August 24, 2009 Thanks for the advice. I'll try to track down a local beekeeper and if the garden's not suitable try the "out apiary" route. Hopefully I'll be able to become a bee keeper one way or the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenanne Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 This might sound odd, but IMO it depends as much/more on what your garden is surrounded by. If it's neighbours similarly-sized gardens then you might struggle to find a spot for your bees which is far enough away from them to not be a problem. Generally ithe best time to inspect is warm weather, which translates for most as sunny Saturday afternoons when you're neighbours are having barbque/playing on trampolines/ mowing lawns/etc. If you back onto wood/fields/railwayline/motorway embankment / etc then you might have more leeway! I think you might be surprised at how many sites would make a good out-apairy though, so I don't think location needs to put you off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craftyhunnypie Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Try & get in touch with a farmer who grows rape seed. Bees are fab for pollinating fields of rape apparently. My brother in law had a man keep bees on one of his fields - he never got any honey off him though - not one titchy jar. Emma.x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beesontoast Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Try & get in touch with a farmer who grows rape seed. Bees are fab for pollinating fields of rape apparently. My brother in law had a man keep bees on one of his fields - he never got any honey off him though - not one titchy jar. Emma.x I wouldn't bother unless they pay you - OSR honey is really not nice and it granulates hard in the comb, making it a pain to extract. Also, bees get very bad tempered on OSR. If possible, find space at home, keep quiet bees and let them take advantage of gardened suburbia, which is actually better for them than a good deal of the countryside nowadays. Make sure your neighbours don't use sprays, check the labels on your potting compost and all should be well. If you can get the hive onto a garage roof, or otherwise elevate it, that will help to ensure their flight path doesn't interfere with passers-by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chook n Boo Mum Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 check the labels on your potting compost and all should be well. Sorry, am I being daft, what do you check for on your compost............? Sha x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Speckled Hen Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 check the labels on your potting compost and all should be well. Sorry, am I being daft, what do you check for on your compost............? Sha x Don't some composts contain imidacloprid which kills bees? Also farm and horse manure contains ivermectin which is given to cattle and horses as a worm treatment. If you don't compost this at a high temperature the drug may not be destroyed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenanne Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 I never knew that! I just grab the peat-free stuff, never thought about what could have been added..... will check the label before parting with my hard earned cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beesontoast Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 I never knew that! I just grab the peat-free stuff, never thought about what could have been added..... will check the label before parting with my hard earned cash. Look out for anything that mentions 'vine weevil treatment' - that's PR-speak for 'deadly insecticide that kills worms and anything else that comes into contact with it'. Hanging baskets are a favourite source of water for bees and other insects - they can suck the water from the compost more easily than taking it from a pond, for example - but if the compost contains imidacloprid, the water is deadly. The neonicotinoids - of which imidacloprid is one - are mind-bogglingly toxic: as little as 5 parts per BILLION can kill a bee. To put that in context, if you stirred ONE TEASPOONFUL of it into ONE THOUSAND METRIC TONNES of water, you would have a solution capable of killing bees and other insects. And that is aside from its equally deadly breakdown products in soil... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenanne Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 So.... if you spread used/old container compost which has been in pots all summer to improve my soil structure in the autumn, there is a chance that you are in fact spreading stuff which will kill earthworms and other soil fauna.... in fact damaging the soil massively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beesontoast Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 So.... if you spread used/old container compost which has been in pots all summer to improve my soil structure in the autumn, there is a chance that you are in fact spreading stuff which will kill earthworms and other soil fauna.... in fact damaging the soil massively. You're getting the picture. Then add the effects of Clopyralid - a herbicide marketed by Dow AgroScience - which is applied by farmers, persists in the grass right through horse and cow digestion processes, lives on through dung and into the compost sold at the farm gate. You spread it on your allotment, thinking how much good you are doing to your land... and then all your vegetables die. See http://www.mindfully.org/Pesticide/Clopyralid-Composting-Dow.htm The agri-chem industry is busy destroying the planet and making a fat profit from doing so, and most people know nothing about it. Maybe someone should tell them? http://www.bayer-kills-bees.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Speckled Hen Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 So.... if you spread used/old container compost which has been in pots all summer to improve my soil structure in the autumn, there is a chance that you are in fact spreading stuff which will kill earthworms and other soil fauna.... in fact damaging the soil massively. Beesontoast is right about the vine weevil stuff. I got a bag once and did actually use it for a succulent in the house prone to that white fluffy stuff with orange bugs in it ..don't know the name. It doesn't flower and is kept inside. I chucked out the rest of the bag into the waste bin. Interestingly Imidacloprid is "Advantage" for fleas in cats and dogs. I didn't know about bees drinking from hanging basket compost. I only ever use peat-free without additives thank heavens. PS should we be using any systemic insecticide at all anywhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenanne Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 I knew about clopyarid. Personally speaking, whatever side someone falls to in the arguments for/against pesticides and the like in commercial agriculture, they're irrelevant for domestic use: is entirely reasonable to avoid pesicides in domestic gardens, let alone in baskets, containers, etc in the garden! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Well, having chickens has totally changed my approach to gardening - I wasn't keen on using chemicals beforehand, but once you think that your hens might eat the plants you're treating, it really makes you stop and think. I do use glyphosate very occasionally for persistent weeds, but only in areas that I know the hens can't reach. I'd never thought about the other insects affected by these things, nor did I know that compost could have chemicals in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chook n Boo Mum Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 well you live and learn, I have no idea what I've been using, so will check next time I'm out there! Sha x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beesontoast Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Sadly, the government doesn't share your concerns. This from the Soil Association: The UK Government is considering reinstating a pesticide, aminopyralid, which has caused huge amounts of damage to fruit and vegetable crops, and which was withdrawn from the market last year. Patrick Holden, Director of the Soil Association, has written to the Secretary of State for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra), Hilary Benn urging him to reject a recommendation from the Advisory Committee on Pesticides (ACP) to reinstate the use of the hormone-based weed killer aminopyralid. This recommendation from the ACP was made following 'stewardship' proposals from Dow Agrosciences, the company producing the pesticide, which they claim will help make use of the product safer. The pesticide is still causing a wide range of crops to fail after its last permitted use in early 2008. When used on grassland the herbicide remains active even after the crop to which it has been applied has been eaten by a grazing animal, passed through the animal, been stored as farm yard manure and eventually reapplied to another crop. The pesticide caused the failure of a wide range of crops including beans, peas, potatoes and tomatoes, soft fruits and flowers. Aminopyralid attaches itself to organic matter and the length of time it takes to beak down completely is as yet unknown. Patrick Holden says: “This pesticide has not been reformulated, nor made safer in any other way. There is no evidence to show that the ‘stewardship’ proposals made by the company producing the pesticide, Dow AgroSciences, will work. The proposals – which include only selling the product in large containers to make it ‘too expensive for casual use’ - provide no guarantee that further damage can be prevented. Indeed, Hilary Benn already knows that this approach does not work. There were already guidelines in place to prevent the use of manure from land treated with aminopyralid from being used for vegetable growing, which did not stop serious contamination incidents from occurring.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 My friends were given a load of free manure last year, which they used to prepare their vegetable garden (they live in the country, and their vegetable patch is as big as a lot of people's gardens). It turned out to be contaminated with aminopyralid - everything they put in failed, and they won't be able to use the ground again until next year at the earliest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Also farm and horse manure contains ivermectin which is given to cattle and horses as a worm treatment. If you don't compost this at a high temperature the drug may not be destroyed. Hi Not all equine folks use Ivermectin (it is one of many that are available) again it is good husbandry ie poo picking regularly(I do mine daily or if working at least 3 times a week)..sheep can help break the burden but I dont have any! There has been some resistance to some wormers for equines and so the dependancy on them is not encouraged again regular poo picking to keep the pasture healthy to break the worm cycle. I do however concede to worm my horses a couple of times a year as I dont want to lose them to heavy worm burden. Horses do die from worms. Ivermectin is used in humans and dog worming too.. so probably best to check when you get offered manure as to who has produced it!(I supply friends with it for their allotments). I also use Grazon to get rid of Docks from my fields as nothing else works(I spot spray them). If I didnt I wouldnt have any grass left and I have lots of clover and a good amount of Bees this year?? I would be upset if they got rid of this as a lot of the other weed killers dont seem to work(I have tried salt before etc...pulling etc etc) Any tips on other methods to kill any of the above weeds worms etc I am interested indie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesley Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I can sympathise Indie - we have a lot of dock and we've been strimming it for 3 years now - we're trying to avoid Grazon but we're losing good clover and grass to docks and we can't afford to lose any more. We have sheep following cows so we don't routinely worm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Hi Lesley I am going to pick broth in laws farming brain re weedkillers etc..he often has different views on them to me(I dont like using these types of things) I think Grazon is great and one bottle has lasted me a long time. the first year I did do the whole lot as I was overrun..I did try pulling seed heads off which just didnt work. Now I just go round with either a back pack or one of us sits on the back of a trailer and sprays clumps of docks. The spot spraying does work really well Broth inlaw said if you do it when they are small weeds you will use less weed killer anyway. It took me a couple of years to get it sorted and if you leave it late spring the plants end up huge. Spot spraying is back breaking..but hopefully have it under control now and the field is nice and grassy. I do move the horses and dont let them back in for a few weeks but its not necessary. I have a lot of clover this year different types too and different grasses. Was thinking of pigs! then I would just have mud no doubt indie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesley Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Yes, our pigs will soon be on just mud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Yes, our pigs will soon be on just mud Yes piggies could solve all the weed problems ..perhaps a little pighaus from Omlet?? Farmie Broth in law favorite farm animal pigs! indie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
