The Dogmother Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 (edited) I think I know what it is, but yet again yesterday we had another (potentially lovely) walk curtailed because farmers will insist on making footpaths impassable with electric fencing In this case it was nigh on invisible and had no signs along it, Ruby ran into it and spent the rest of the afternoon traumatised after a nasty shock We set of every weekend with the OS maps and dogs only to find that footpath signs have been removed, gates locked closed across paths rendering them impassable, darned great bulls in fields.... you get the idea! I thought that farmers were bound to keep them passable and stiles/gates maintained and usable. We are very responsible walkers - dogs on leads in any potentially 'difficult' areas, always shut gates etc but I'm getting a tad tired of this now. Edited September 12, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucky Mama Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Not sure but when we have had problems with footpaths the local Parish Council have been very helpful in ensuring footpaths are maintained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted September 12, 2011 Author Share Posted September 12, 2011 Thanks CM, I'll have a scout around and see who is responsible for these ones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willow Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 The ramblers association (not sure exactly what it is called) can probably help as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted September 12, 2011 Author Share Posted September 12, 2011 Just found this page which also gives me a link for reporting any obstructed footpaths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westie mum Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Try the Ramblers my dad walks with the Ramblers and I know that earlier in the year one of the walkers went around all of the local footpaths and checked that no where was blocked,paths were clear,clearly signposted etc, he did it on behalf of the council so it might be worth asking them as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majorbloodnock Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Although, being an interested party, the Ramblers' Association can't be considered impartial, this page of FAQs is pretty accurate and objective. The local council has a legal obligation to maintain footpaths and other rights of way, and as such has the legal power to take action against any land owners putting up obstructions or allowing obstructions to occur. Therefore, if they put up an electric fence, they must provide a means for a walker to traverse it, and if a tree falls across a path and the landowner leaves it there, the council can force them to remove it. Bear in mind, though, that there's nothing to require stiles, gates and other means of crossing barriers to be usable by dogs. A dog is allowed to accompany a walker, but the right of way only legally needs to be maintained in such a way as to be suitable for the walker him- or herself. Whilst we're on the subject, a footpath is a permissive right of way. That means it extends a right of use of otherwise privately owned land to members of the public to walk on. It does not in any way prohibit anything, so a cyclist or horse rider isn't banned from using it. It's just that the rights related to a footpath don't apply to a cyclist or horserider, so their rights are exactly the same as if the right of way didn't exist, so if they have the land owner's permission, they're perfectly entitled to ride along it (giving way to pedestrians as necessary). Certainly I've had plenty of instances before now when I've been cycling considerately along a footpath with the consent of the land owner and received torrents of abuse from walkers who just don't understand (or want to) the law. I know it's off the topic here, but just worth reminding everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majorbloodnock Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Also, I forgot to mention that councils are legally required to maintain a record of all rights of way within their jurisdiction, and that record is commonly known as the "Definitive Map", usually kept available for public perusal at a town hall or council offices. Some councils are a little more progressive than that and provide a copy online, and you're lucky in that Oxfordshire is such an example, as can be seen here. This allows you to check whether the path you were following is a true right of way or merely a permissive path (where the land owner says people can use it, but could withdraw such permission whenever they wish). If you want to be extremely pedantic about it, the online copy of the Definitive Map is not an official record, since if there were any discrepancy between the copy and the physical document then the physical Definitive Map is the one that wins. However, generally you can assume the online version to be the official stance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted September 12, 2011 Author Share Posted September 12, 2011 That's interesting Major, thanks. There was absolutely no way of getting around that fenced off area as the leccy wires were right up against the boundary of the field (which didn't contain livestock) I have asked the county council (via their reporting line) to look into it. Shame as it would have been a lovely walk. While I find most stiles to be dog-friendly, I don't expect them to be and while one dog will happily jump over them on command, t'other is perfectly able to do so, but prefers it if I lug his 20kg over for him... he is such a princess Another thing that your post brought to mind was the complaint by a friend that while walking her dog on the footpaths crossing a local private estate used to be OK, she has since been shouted at by estate workers to get her (elderly) dog on a lead - there are no signs indicating that dogs ought to be on-lead on this estate and the paths are all well fenced on both sides. Cross-posted... thanks Major, i checked that map out this morning and it is a right of way type of footpath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majorbloodnock Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Another thing that your post brought to mind was the complaint by a friend that while walking her dog on the footpaths crossing a local private estate used to be OK, she has since been shouted at by estate workers to get her (elderly) dog on a lead - there are no signs indicating that dogs ought to be on-lead on this estate and the paths are all well fenced on both sides. Interesting indeed. The law as I understand it (and I'm not a lawyer) is that a dog has to be kept under close control, but I don't believe it makes any stipulation as to how this is achieved. My take is that if you choose to train your dog to such a standard that it'll obey your commands unhesitatingly and without exception, you're satisfying the law perfectly well. My take is also that if you keep your dog on one of those extendable leads and fail to rein the animal in when other walkers are trying to get past or when you're passing livestock, you're failing to fulfil your legal obligations. The estate workers don't own the land, so aren't automatically in a position to ask your friend to do anything at all. However, even if the land owner has delegated the task of protecting against trespass, I don't think they have any right to dictate how the "close control" of the dog is maintained. All that said, farmers do have a right to protect their livestock, and are entitled to resort to shooting a dog they believe to be worrying their animals, irrespective of rights of way. A lead is undoubtedly useful as a visible proof that the dog isn't about to start causing trouble, and demonstrates to even the most twitchy of farmers that you're not one of the (sadly numerous) irresponsible dog owners. I'm not for a moment suggesting your friend is like that, but it will probably not be apparent one way or the other at first glance. Anything like this requires a bit of give and take, and the absence of signage suggests the estate in question is tending towards one side of that equation, but I suppose we all have to be a little philosophical once in a while.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted September 12, 2011 Author Share Posted September 12, 2011 That was more or less my take on the matter too The dog in question is an elderly, blind and rather tubby labrador I can understand the estate workers being twitchy about my lurchers, thus I would usually keep them on-lead to avoid any doubt, but this tubster couldn't 'kill' a brown paper bag that's what made it so laughable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lillybettybabs Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 As an ex farmers wife i can say some farmers just don't like the public on their land full stop so will make it difficult. We made sure our right of ways where cared for but on a number of occasions we had groups of ramblers cutting wire trampling on crops as they say they have the right to go anywhere. We also had kids lighting fires in fields. We didn't get any support from the police or council, Sadly because of a small minority of people who take liberties made us very twitchy about people being on our land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majorbloodnock Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Yes. When you see some farmers' lack of consideration for walkers and some walkers lack of consideration for farmers, it's easy to see how viewpoints can get pretty polarised and entrenched. And that helps no-one.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted September 12, 2011 Author Share Posted September 12, 2011 I totally agree, there was a nasty fire in Drayton last autumn when yoofs set a whole trailer of straw bales alight - it went up in smoke and the trailer was gutted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moostard Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 Hi Dogmother, I suggest you give Oxfordshire's Countryside Service a call on 01865 810226 and ask for the Field Officer for Banbury. It may be an issue they're aware of but if not, one that they should be made aware of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted September 16, 2011 Author Share Posted September 16, 2011 Thanks Moostard, will do. I had an email back from my report... they'd 'look into it', so perhaps they will. It's not a walk we often do, so I shan't be going back in the near future to check. On a more positive note , I see that the landowner and council have got the 'campers' and all the broken glass cleared from the trig point up on Crouch Hill; it was getting really bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
