Jenny Smedley Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) I am totally confused - I have read several articles in various Poultry magazines saying that you shouldn't feed any leftovers that have been in your domestic kitchen to your hens for fear of nasties like salmonella etc. due to new rules by Defra. I even read an article in a daily newspaper (The Daily Mail I think) , also saying the same thing. I will confess, if I've had any left over rice or pasta I have still given it to my hens as I can't afford/abide waste. I assumed I was breaking the rules . It was raised in another post a couple of months ago, by a newbie & I said I would contact DEFRA for clarification. This is what I got back ( eventually!!) : Dear Ms Smedley, Feeding hens Thank you for your email of 7 February about feeding hens. I have been asked to reply. There is no legislation on feeding pets with leftovers. The Animal Welfare Act 2006 makes owners and keepers responsible for ensuring that the welfare needs of their animals are met. These include the need: for a suitable environment (place to live) for a suitable diet to exhibit normal behaviour patterns to be housed with, or apart from, other animals (if applicable) to be protected from pain, injury, suffering and disease Our guidance on animal welfare requires that no animal is treated other than what is stated http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/layer?topicId=1083732033 ******* Defra Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra) This email and any attachments is intended for the named recipient only. Clear as mud!! Edited February 29, 2012 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daphne Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) I don't think she has got this right...but by the same token I can't get the links right on my reply, grrr, is there a helpful mod around please to tell me where to put the http:// symbol? I've have always been too lazy to check it out, but your efforts have prompted me to see for myself. A scant one minute has unearthed the following: linky which tells us 'It is illegal to feed chickens with waste food from your kitchen, including vegetable s"Ooops, word censored!"s' I followed a link to here and discovered this - 'Leaflet: Feeding catering waste to farmed animals is illegal (PDF 898 KB) is a leaflet aimed at both farmers and catering waste premises to explain the rules on feeding and the disposal outlets for catering waste'. Catering waste is defined as 'all waste food including used cooking oil originating in restaurants, catering facilities and kitchens, including central kitchens and household kitchens'. And finallythiswhich tells us 'It has been illegal to feed catering waste to farmed animals in the UK since 2001' and that 'Farmed animals' includes any pet animals that belong to a farmed species, such as pet pigs, goats and poultry'. BTW, apparently one can be sent to jail for up to 2 years for disobeying these edicts Edited February 29, 2012 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NannyOgg Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I think it's pretty clear TBH - the email clearly states that there is no legislation on feeding leftovers, and the link, if you select Poultry Welfare (on or off farm), no mention is made regarding leftovers. Therefore, if there's no legislation, then it's okay to feed, assuming that in so doing you are not compromising the five freedoms, by e.g. providing leftovers that have been contaminated by being in contact with something which may prove harmful. I found it useful - thanks for posting, I will be printing off and putting in the chicken file! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NannyOgg Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I posted my reply before I saw Daphne's response, did a little search myself, and found the leaflet CLICK HERE FOR LEAFLET The only problem is, I can't see a publication date on the leaflet, so it may be that the information emailed to Jenny is correct, and supersedes the leaflet, or it may be that the email is absolute codswallop Hmmmmmm. Now I agree Jenny......................................clear as mud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloud Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 What's the definition of leftovers? The best I've seen on the DEFRA site is " Catering waste is defined as all waste food". That sound a little circular to me. If I cut up a lettuce to jointly give some to us humans and some to the hens is that different from if I cut up a lettuce to give to us humans, and then give what's left to the hens. I don't think either of the above is waste food, although the second is on principle left overs. A better definition might help understand the intent of DEFRA. I'm sure they're not intending it to apply in this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyhas3chucks Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 i think the operative word is Catering... I cook for my family, I don't cater except for catering to the girls needs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NannyOgg Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 i think the operative word is Catering...I cook for my family, I don't cater except for catering to the girls needs Sadly not that simple: You cannot feed any kind of catering waste to farmed animals.Catering waste is defined as all waste food, whether raw or cooked, including used cooking oils (UCO), which arise in premises such as:• Household kitchens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny Smedley Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 Hi everyone, I agree that the Defra reply email is not clear & I have definately read stuff that says if it's been in your domestic kitchen it can't go to your hens - a bit simplistic I know but that sums it up in one sentence . Anyway , I have emailed her again so we will hopefully get a clearer reply, but if the last one is anything to go by it will be 3 weeks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMS6 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I wonder if the confusion is round the Pets versus Farm Animals too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyhas3chucks Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 awww shucks... They still don't get left overs anyway, I cook stuff for them .. And the toast they get or bit of sandwich is not left over ... it is shared!! but being serious what stuff and nonsense...!!!! It is ok to feed ruminants poultry litter!!!! and .... oh.. lets not get me on my soap box.. xx i think the operative word is Catering...I cook for my family, I don't cater except for catering to the girls needs Sadly not that simple: You cannot feed any kind of catering waste to farmed animals.Catering waste is defined as all waste food, whether raw or cooked, including used cooking oils (UCO), which arise in premises such as:• Household kitchens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I was always given to understand that we may not feed them food or s"Ooops, word censored!"s intended fro human consumption. While I am against feeding them any sort of processed/human food, I do tend to give them a few peelings or greens at the end of the day, but it it stuff that we wouldn't even dream of eating ourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlo Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 If it is any consolation - in my 23 years of working in a magistrates' court, I have never seen a prosecution for feeding waste s"Ooops, word censored!"s to hens! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny Smedley Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 I got an interesting 2ND reply ( see below) from DEFRA saying that previous information I was given ( from DEFRA!) was wrong & that it is illegal to feed kitchen s"Ooops, word censored!"s to hens! I'm certainly guilty! Could the Omlet powers- that- be make this DEFRA info permanently available to other Omleteers so they at least are informed? Defra 2nd email : ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear Ms Smedley, FEEDING CHICKENS Thank you for your follow up email of 29 February about feeding chickens. I have been asked to reply. Unfortunately you were given the wrong information in our last correspondence, as you have read it is illegal to feed chickens with waste food from your kitchen, including vegetable s"Ooops, word censored!"s. Detailed information can be found on our website, I have provided you with our web link below: http://archive.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/byproducts/wastefood/caterwaste.htm If you have any further questions please contact the Food Standard Agency (FSA), they will be able to assist you further. I have provided their contact details below: http://www.food.gov.uk/aboutus/contactus/ I hope this email is helpful. Yours sincerely, Edward Keenaghan Defra - Customer Contact Unit Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is fairly draconian - even including veg s"Ooops, word censored!"s! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny Smedley Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 Further to my last post - I re-read some of the earlier posts re whether it meant only catering waste & so I rang DEFRA : they have confirmed that it's not just catering waste but also normal domestic kitchen waste ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 The blanket term which I have been given in the past - and use in my courses - is that 'they may not be fed food intended for human consumption'. I think that just about covers it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lillybettybabs Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I think many of these rules are because hens are classed as farm animals and the strict guild lines are to prevents unfit eggs and meat begin sold to the public and i think that is the keys word PUBLIC. If your are going to sell your eggs and meat then it would advisable that you to stick to the guide lines as they can trace it back to the source if some was to go down with a food connected illness. Over recent years chickens have started to become pets but the guidelines haven't changed and DEFRA would have to tell everyone the same rules (pet owners to farmers) to cover themselves. Just remember that you can get some nasty bugs from hens and eggs fed on certain s"Ooops, word censored!"s so it's down to the individual to take the risk. I personally don't feed s"Ooops, word censored!"s at all to my hens as i was always taught what you feed animals is what you get out (basically feed junk, get junk) but then i am set in my old farmer ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan08 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 So next time I shop I will need to buy a cabbage specifcally for the girls, and I will have to eat the leftovers There are understandably very strict rules around to protect consumers of food products. But sometimes the one rule fits all is a little over the top. And my poor boxer, who can't eat leftovers because they affect his colitis, can legally be fed all kinds of junk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 That is because neither he nor his eggs are eaten by the public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny Smedley Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 Re "feed junk, get junk" - I agree , but aren't we talking about "extras" here? No one is suggesting feeding s"Ooops, word censored!"s to their hens instead of proper chicken food ( layers pellets/mash) but more some left over rice, pasta or veg peelings in the afternoon as a treat. The DEFRA rules would certainly affect that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloud Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 The DEFRA statement does seem to make it quite difficult for us to feed them anything other than shop bought chicken food. I'd like to see a DEFRA definition of waste. At the moment don't we have to assume anything leaving the kitchen not on a plate is waste? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 As had been said, they are covering their backs and trying to avoid any cross-contamination. I've never been the first to step up in defence of Defra, but I can see their thinking when this rule is used as guidance. I am sure that some people will continue to feed their chickens with the odd (unprocessed) s"Ooops, word censored!"s, but that is up to them and, realistically, I doubt that Defra will be checking each and every household. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloud Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 So, maybe we don't want or need DEFRA to clarify anything further. I wouldn't want to undermine their power to keep the food chain healthy, and a little bit of ambiguity allows good common sense to prevail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lillybettybabs Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 So, maybe we don't want or need DEFRA to clarify anything further. I wouldn't want to undermine their power to keep the food chain healthy, and a little bit of ambiguity allows good common sense to prevail. Spot on there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyhas3chucks Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 That is because neither he nor his eggs are eaten by the public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
