buffie Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 There has been some misleading publicity about the EU ban on cages. The Eu has agreed to ban the conventional cage BUT an 'Enriched Cage' will still be acceptable. This just isn't good enough so we will continue to work hard to bring hens from cages. If you can just pass this message on and please remember BHWT is pro the British farmer, it's not the farmer's fault. BBxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 There has been some misleading publicity about the EU ban on cages. The Eu has agreed to ban the conventional cage BUT an 'Enriched Cage' will still be acceptable. This just isn't good enough so we will continue to work hard to bring hens from cages. I've been telling people this for days/weeks/months! LOL People keep mailing or phoning me about the ban and saying "guess what..." etc etc so I keep having to explain about the enriched cage, even on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffie Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 Yes Poet it's just a gentle reminder so if anyone wasn't sure they can pass on the info. BBx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Yes Poet it's just a gentle reminder so if anyone wasn't sure they can pass on the info. BBx here's a bit more info about enriched cages from an RSPCA press release, so people know exactly what 'enriched cage' means as some people may not know. What are enriched cages? Since 2003, legislation has stipulated that any new cage systems built (in Europe) are so-called "enriched" cages. Enriched cages provide each hen with just 50cm² more useable space than conventional cages - the extra space is less than the size of a beer mat and the overall useable space per bird is still less than a sheet of A4 paper. The birds still don't have enough room to move around freely. There could be 20 or more than 100 hens in a cage. The majority of the flooring is still made of wire apart from a scratching mat and nest area. Enriched cages are a step in the right direction. Whereas conventional battery cages are barren (see above), enriched cages provide the birds with limited facilities including perches, and areas for scratching and laying eggs. They have a minimum headroom of 45cm, although when hens are perching this is reduced. The nest area is a beneficial inclusion but because its size is unspecified they are generally too small for the number of birds that use them. This means there can be competition to use the nesting area and some birds do not have the opportunity to carry out the full repertoire of nesting behaviours. The size of the scratching mats is also not specified and they are often not big enough for the number of birds. Due to the small size of the scratching mat it is difficult to provide appropriate material and quantities so they can dustbathe properly. A recent European study found that complete dustbathing behaviours were not carried out in enriched cages. The perches are also a positive inclusion but because of the lack of space they make it difficult for hens to move through the cages or for hens to rest undisturbed at different times of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louise Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 If we had a complete ban on UK battery egg supply there would be an egg shortage and we would end up using imported ones more than we do now There is a huge chicken farm battery and free range near me who is trying desperately to expand to produce more free range because that is what the public want to buy but he keeps getting objections to free range sheds from locals because of the smell Main problem is townies who move to the country and find things icky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesley Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Good idea Buffs - I think it is important to remember that the BHWT work very closely with farmers and don't want to spoil that relationship. The farmers have been led up the same track as the rest of us. Change will happen - and the BHWT do a stirling job with their careful approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffie Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 As with most things Louise we've got to stop demanding so many eggs, or so much meat at a cheap price. Farmers are willing to change their production and it's the consumer who needs to look at how they eat and the pressure they put on the farmers in this country to supply. I hope this weeks TV will be just the start of this debate BBx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 If we had a complete ban on UK battery egg supply there would be an egg shortage and we would end up using imported ones more than we do now there's always the barn alternative, while not ideal it is far better than the caged alternative. But we know that already. People out there are under the impression that cages have been banned completely. They don't know about 'enriched cages'. I didn't see the news yesterday but I've been told that enriched cages weren't mentioned then either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 I think it is important to remember that the BHWT work very closely with farmers and don't want to spoil that relationship. The farmers have been led up the same track as the rest of us. Change will happen - and the BHWT do a stirling job with their careful approach. Amen to that. I so wish that there was a rescue centre closer to me. I've got a yellow Eglu sitting with vacant possession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 As with most things Louise we've got to stop demanding so many eggs, or so much meat at a cheap price. Farmers are willing to change their production and it's the consumer who needs to look at how they eat and the pressure they put on the farmers in this country to supply. I hope this weeks TV will be just the start of this debate BBx hi Buffie, I know you have to be careful with your relationship with farmers and you can't comment on the condition of the hens, but come on, some of the hens are in terrible condition when they come out of the cage and some don't make it at all! Farmers have to take the blame for that. 2 of our girls looked like they'd been treated reasonably well, a few feathers missing on their necks where they've probably rubbed on the bars and tatty wing feathers but on the whole, pretty good condition. The other 2 were bald on their crops, necks, backs and they were in really poor condition. delete this if you like, after you've read it, if you're worried it will upset the apple cart but farmers are not blameless. Consumers, supermarkets and farmers all play their part in the misery. It annoys me when I hear "it's not the farmers fault"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louise Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 I have real issues with things in the UK being banned or tightened up and then the great british sheep like public just buying things containing foreign imports which with all due respect to everyones opinions but this does nothing for animal welfare at all as animals used for food and everthing elase they are used for abroad even in Europe are appalingly treated I hate battery eggs but banning them just means we use more foreign ones where there are no enriched cages and before I am reminded that it is an EU ban trust me we will be the only country that goes along and brings an EU directive into our own legislation as a directive is not law it is just an instruction for the individual countries to make it part of their own laws and the UK are the only country in Europe that actually do this everyone else picka and chooses what to implement I am sorry to rant and be the only voice for this but legislation is a large part of what I do and it really galls me that Europe is allowed to get away with this Don't get me started on the rest of the world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 I have real issues with things in the UK being banned or tightened up and then the great british sheep like public just buying things containing foreign imports which with all due respect to everyones opinions but this does nothing for animal welfare at all as animals used for food and everthing elase they are used for abroad even in Europe are appalingly treated I hate battery eggs but banning them just means we use more foreign ones where there are no enriched cages and before I am reminded that it is an EU ban trust me we will be the only country that goes along and brings an EU directive into our own legislation as a directive is not law it is just an instruction for the individual countries to make it part of their own laws and the UK are the only country in Europe that actually do this everyone else picka and chooses what to implement I am sorry to rant and be the only voice for this but legislation is a large part of what I do and it really galls me that Europe is allowed to get away with this Don't get me started on the rest of the world Rant away Louise....you make fair points based on sound experience. I am sure you will be proved to be right about the imports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louise Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 I have seen it in meat production we tighten up and everyone buys danish pork it upsets me to see farms going out of business because of it We are losing dairy farms at a frigtening rate because of the prices paid for milk and the cost of looking after the animals to UK standards There are none left near here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 hmmm, do we know for sure that the rest of the EU won't follow suit? After all, Sweden have banned cages completely already haven't they? So they're way ahead of us. I've just been reading this article which states; While the traditional battery cage still accounts for 85 percent of egg production across the EU (apart from Sweden, which has banned the use of such cages), in some states (e.g. Austria, Denmark, Ireland, Netherlands, Sweden and the UK) alternative non-cage systems now account for a substantial share of output. http://www.thepoultrysite.com/poultrynews/7921/eu-ban-on-bird-cages-may-end-up-costing-more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 (edited) and here's an interesting article about battery eggs in the states, seems they're working hard to change their system also... http://www.hsus.org/farm/camp/nbe/ Edited January 10, 2008 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louise Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 I wonder how many eggs we import from Sweden I hear what you are saying Poet and with all due respect to you it will be the cheap s**t from cages we import because the drones shop with their pockets and not with their concience out of sight out of mind Same as the UK wanted to ban cosmetics testing we did and that is great how many of you use products from foreign cosmetics companies Even bath and shower products People just don't think they want ban ban ban rather than stricter regulation and banning cruddy imports Good job we have a language filter I have moderated myself several times typing this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 it's all so depressing and seems futile when faced with arguments like yours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louise Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Sorry to make you feel that way Poet I am not going to comment anymore its makes my blood pressure rise and I have made my point and I don't want this to descend into a nasty row Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louise Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 BTW there is a have your say on the BBC website about banning battery cages at the moment well worth a read to see what the great unwashed think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronze Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 The idealist and the pragmatist. It feels like a aesop fable.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronze Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 (edited) hmmm, do we know for sure that the rest of the EU won't follow suit? After all, Sweden have banned cages completely already haven't they? So they're way ahead of us. I've just been reading this article which states; While the traditional battery cage still accounts for 85 percent of egg production across the EU (apart from Sweden, which has banned the use of such cages), in some states (e.g. Austria, Denmark, Ireland, Netherlands, Sweden and the UK) alternative non-cage systems now account for a substantial share of output. http://www.thepoultrysite.com/poultrynews/7921/eu-ban-on-bird-cages-may-end-up-costing-more ouy of interest they've banned the traditional battery cage in Sweden. Do we know how far down the road they've gone. Does that include 'enriches cages' Edited January 10, 2008 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 BTW there is a have your say on the BBC website about banning battery cages at the moment well worth a read to see what the great unwashed think hope you'll comment on there then as well, people need to know about the points you've raised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhapsody Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Main problem is townies who move to the country and find things icky Main problem IMHO is bumpkins who think they can do whatever the hell they like and everyone around just has to put up with it!!!!!! This 'enriched cage' thing is just more fudging, and most folk do not care, as we all know. Even those who can afford it mainly buy intensively-produced stuff because we have all been brainwashed to expect rock bottom prices by the supermarkets. Sadly economics, politics, and trade agreements will be the deciding factors not a desire for welfare standards. All we can do is vote with our purses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffie Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 As with most things Louise we've got to stop demanding so many eggs, or so much meat at a cheap price. Farmers are willing to change their production and it's the consumer who needs to look at how they eat and the pressure they put on the farmers in this country to supply. I hope this weeks TV will be just the start of this debate BBx hi Buffie, I know you have to be careful with your relationship with farmers and you can't comment on the condition of the hens, but come on, some of the hens are in terrible condition when they come out of the cage and some don't make it at all! Farmers have to take the blame for that. 2 of our girls looked like they'd been treated reasonably well, a few feathers missing on their necks where they've probably rubbed on the bars and tatty wing feathers but on the whole, pretty good condition. The other 2 were bald on their crops, necks, backs and they were in really poor condition. delete this if you like, after you've read it, if you're worried it will upset the apple cart but farmers are not blameless. Consumers, supermarkets and farmers all play their part in the misery. It annoys me when I hear "it's not the farmers fault"! Poet That is genuinely my view and that of the BHWT. The relationship with the British farmers is vital to our work. It's taken years to build up trust and now we reach this wonderful week. We encourage supporters to remember it's eggs supplied to consumer demand. I'll let the debate run now BBx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 It would be a real shame if all the excellent work done by the BHWT was undone by damaging talk. The relationship of trust carefully built up with the farmers could be ended if there is a campaign to vilify them. They are responding to market forces after all, and, something that seems to have been overlooked in all these discussions, they are providing employment for thousands of UK residents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
