beach chick Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Juanita is a Columbian BlackTail, not laying yet - she's one of the new batch I got at the beginning of June, which vet thinks bought in mycoplasma. they've all been flubenvetted and recently finished course of Tylan, all seemed fine (except Meringue who died last week, who went overnight). she looked a little bit hunched up yesterday pm, but was fine later doing normal chickeny things it seemed. this morning when I let them out at 10 to 7, she literally fell out of the cube, and just lay on her side. picked her up, put her on her feet and she collapsed again. since then I have: - bought her inside - syringed water and honey, fed a little weetabix off a spoon - been to the vet (not our proper chicken vet, his day off). she has given Baytril on basis there is not much else to do. Juanita is VERY thin, no muscle on the breast at all. crop is fine. she's had her baytril this morning, and I have syringed down a liquidised mix of catfood, weetabix and water, and then some more water. good news is she seems to perk up immediately after food and water, then goes back down again. vet says little and often is the best thing, so I will give her a little feed every hour or so today. she's now in a cardboard box in the laundry room, with a bowl of water with some citricidal in it (dont think she'll drink it though). vet doesnt hold out enormous amount of hope, but if I can get her through 24 hours then I can take her to the proper vet tomorrow. is there anything else I can do for her now? the kids thought she felt quite cold, should I give her a warm hot water bottle? thanks in advance for any advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henhathnofury Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 She should be warm enough inside....chickens run quite high temperature and perhaps a hot water bottle might dehydrate her, as well as make her too warm. I think there should be other really experienced people along soon but it will help to say: What her droppings are like? Is she laying? Is she oozing yolk? I think if she goes any further downhill, you should get her to the vet again for anti-inflammatories and antibiotics. But she does perk up after food and you are giving her good things, with vitamins and protein. Where are you based? Are there any avian specialists you could contact? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beach chick Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 thanks for that. just had a look at her - no better, but on the other hand no worse. droppings fine; not laying yet and way off (tiny pale pink comb) so dont think it can eggrelated. will just keep holding on and see how we go - chicken vet should be back tomorrow, so we'll see. fingers crossed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henhathnofury Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Fingers crossed for you too...you sound as if you are doing everything right....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucky Mama Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 It is better to warm the environment than to put on something warm as this can actually make them loose heat. Easily digestible food little and often with the minimum of stress is all that I can suggest. Perhaps some probiotics? Good Luck and fingers crossed for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budgies Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 If she's got no meat on her at all, she's got no easy way of keeping warm, even if the ambient temperature is fairly high. for that reason I would put a hottie bottle wrapped in a towel in with her. As you're feeding her regularly, you'll soon see signs of heat distress (holding her wings out for example or panting) and can remove it if necessary. At the moment a lot of her energy will be going into keeping her temperature up, whereas it can go to healing her if she's kept nice and warm. You're doing it all right, very good luck, hope your little lady pulls through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legend21 Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I have everything crossed for you good luck and let us know how she is doing huggs Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beach chick Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 umming & ahing over adding a hottie. she's holding her wings away from her when I've got her on my lap for food/water, but that may be discomfort... just gave her another feed, she was keener on the water than the food but got about 40ml of water down her and a reasonable amount of food. now wondering whether I'm giving her too much!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Sorry to hear your problems, but it sounds as if you're doing all you can for her. I'm not sure about a hottie - the fact that she's indoors and sheltered means she's not having to expend energy on anything else, and chickens don't like to be too hot. No experience in this area however. Keeping her hydrated is the main thing, so it's good that she's taking water. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beach chick Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 on balance I'm thinking no to the hottie. she's in the quiet, dark laundry room - the window's open but there is no breeze in there, and it stays pretty constant. trying not to look in too often so that she stays calm - tho she's good as gold about being handled, I think its because she's not well. generally my lot are pretty uncuddly, so its not a good sign that she's not putting up a fight. she had the last feed at about 1pm, so will leave her now til 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucky Mama Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 The problem with hotties is that put next to the body in a debiltated animal is that they make the blood vessels dilate which makes the body loose heat, this is why it is better to warm the immediate environment or conserve the heat already there i.e wrap up loosly. You could try some electrolytes instead of plain water such as Lectade or Oxbow Critical care which is a balanced mixture for assisted feeding. Those are the veterinary brands but you may be able to use diarolyte. This will make sure that she is getting the right balance of electrolytes etc. If she perks up after food you could feed her more often in small amounts as long as her crop is doing what is should. Loads of luck and fingers and toes crossed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henhathnofury Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 That's very true about the electrolytes. I was given Lacto B for my girl which contains these, prebiotics, enzymes and vitamins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I would place her on a comfortably warm , not hot water bottle, it will help to maintain her temperature without her wasting valuable energy in doing so. Fingers crossed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beach chick Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 well she's just had more food and sweetened water (cant get any electolytes today). I had her wrapped in a towel and she seemed to like that, almost dozing off, so will go for the hottie now I think. thanks again everyone, I'll keep you posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beach chick Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 well, she's still going. tbh, not sure if any improvement or not. she seems terribly tired, but then illness has a way of doing that to you, and if she's been ill for 2-3 days (or more, judging by how thin she is - tho she was louse powdered 10 days ago and felt fine then) she's probably knackered. so maybe taking in the water and food and antibiotics makes her feel well enough to sleep? poss clutching at straws here; I wont be surprised if she doesnt make it through the night. she had the 2nd dose of baytril about 8pm, and has just had more food and water (still by syringe, dont think she'd make the effort otherwise). the hottie is comfortably warm and she's wrapped in a tea towel; she seems comfortable at least. I will give her more water and food before I go to bed in an hour or so, leave her with some water for the night, and then just hope for the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucky Mama Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 any news? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beach chick Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 sad news I'm afraid. I came down this morning and really thought she was dead. a few flickers of life, but I decided not to give her anything else so as not to prolong the agony. then youngest went in and she was awake, so we gave her some baytril and honey-water, but there really was no point. vet put her to sleep at 9.30 am. I was proud of the girls, they came in and watched her being PTS, which is not easy, esp if you are 12 and 10. I know we did everything we could, and thanks for everyone's advice. I feel really low about it, and worried as to which one is going to succumb to something next. discussed post mortem; but I would have had to take her to the other practice 12 miles away, and pm is £50 and quite possibly inconclusive anyway. if another girl does go I will get a pm done, and depending on the results I may well try and get some money off the farm I got them from (spent £300 on 7 girls!) and/or report them to Trading Standards. ugh, what a couple of days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beach chick Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 sorry, just trying to update header Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tara.F Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I'm so sorry it must be very traumatic to watch them go downhill like that. Obviously you did everything right and all that anyone could have, a trained vet couldn't have done more. I hope your children aren't too sad for long and that your (well overdue) run of good luck starts now cyber hugs, Tara xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henhathnofury Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I am so very sorry. I was thinking about you last night. What a horrible time you are having. £300 is a lot to spend and I would suspect that they were not healthy. When you feel up to talking about it, would it be possible to know how many have you lost in total and when did you buy them? Quite sincerely, if you need any help wording a letter to trading standards or any other help with letter writing etc...I would be only too glad to help. It's one of my specialities. But cyber hugs for your loss. I lost a girl on Friday morning too, after going through all that nursing too. You did a wonderful job and your children were so brave to go through the vet process. You are quite a family! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucky Mama Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Oh what an awful shame. You really did everthing that you possilbly could. I am sorry for you all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hens@HalfMoonLane Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I'm sorry to hear about your run of bad luck. Hope you're over it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 What a shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beach chick Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 thanks everyone. in hindsight, I have been very stupid. I went to a place which had lots of diff breeds, and I knew really when I was there that it wasnt good (a bit dirty, chooks a bit feather-bare etc). however, I was like a kid in a sweetie shop - there's a Buff Orp! there's an Aruacana! etc, and I let my heart over ride my head. plus it was about an hour's drive from home, so I thought well I'm here now... I was adding 7 new girls to 4 'old' girls - this was at the start of June. I also didnt have a clear quarantine space - coz of fox probs I had to put the 7 new girls in 2 eglus + runs, but INSIDE the leccy fence, so there was no real segregation of new from old. intros went fine, in fact very smoothly (I've never had a prob with intros, I think it is due to amount of space and escape routes). within a week one of the new ones was sneezing, and then I noticed it spread - maybe 3 out of 11 having the odd snort. so went to vet - he says place I got them in notorious for mycoplasma and poor hygiene, so we tylan-ed and flubenvet-ed them all, things seemed ok for a while. early July, louse powdered them all. cube is cleaned once a week with jetwash and fairy liquid, and then powdered with whatever I've got - diatom, red mite powder, louse powder (prob not all at same time!) have got some poultry shield on order now. July 14, I found Meringue dead in the nest box - she was one of last year's batch. hadnt laid for a while but I thought she was my egg-eater, so was working on that. on reflection, she felt ok when I removed her - not skinny or anything. July 21, Juanita (the latest lot) fell out of nest box, and trauma began. So, what have I learnt? well, I think the single most important thing is getting them from a good supplier. I've been lucky so far - my first 4 came from someone with an excellent reputation; the next 5 from a small local breeder; then I got some more from the first guy; these 7 came from people who run a 'hobby farm' - they sell chickens, goats, pigs, llamas and do Christmas festivals for kids etc. if I had known ANYTHING about their reputation I would not have gone near - but I dont know how I would have found that out, just googling their name didnt bring anything up and I dont have any local chicken keeping friends. secondly, I've never had a sick chicken before this - I think I did everything I could, thanks to a good vet and advice from people here. but just be aware of how very quickly they go downhill... thirdly, the quarantine procedure: difficult one this. if I had done it 'properly' I wouldnt have bought mycoplasma to my existing 4 chooks. this means that I should probably now wait for them all to die before I start again - a depressing prospect. however, my set up makes it difficult to do this safely/easily (fox, ability to move runs etc), so I guess that brings me back to point 1. oldest is now saying "mummy, we should give up, we're not much good at this" but I really dont think that's the case. I'm sure I'm not perfect, but they are clean, well-fed, etc etc. I've had cats, dogs, gerbils, a terrapin etc since childhood, so I'm quite capable I think of meeting animals' needs and doing what needs to be done, even the hard things. going to have large glass of wine now - sorry for megapost! and thanks again for advice/kind words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henhathnofury Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 You are good at this and you have dealt with it with bravery and fortitude. Even quarantined, the old chooks could have caught illness, as lots of it is airbourne. You have really been through a horrible time. You are clearly a loving and wonderful chicken-keeper..so please don't let it put you off. There are some unscrupulous people out there and sadly, there always will be. Enjoy your wine and you deserve more than a glass. Good wishes and hopes for better luck. Hope that the children are OK...it's always so awful. After our first chicken death in February my girl was hysterical and could not stop crying. I bought that chicken from a farm and she was very subdued, so I felt sorry for her. I made a mistake too...it's so easy when you have so much love to give. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
