Is my pekin bantam male or female?

[Romany]

Yesterday I came back from holiday to find one of my hens looking weak, wobbly and listless and not feeding or drinking. She has lost weight and when I looked her over I discovered she was crawling with lice. I had powdered all the birds before going on hols with Barrier Louse Powder EXCEPT this one hen because I couldn't catch her!

 

I doused her with Barrier Louse Powder and Diatom from the cupboard. My local Countrywide store was closed so I couldn't get my hands on anything else quickly. The lice showed no effects from the powders and happily crawled around so in desperation I applied Full Marks Head Lice solution to her - with the result that it killed the lice instantly

 

However, today she is still pale and weak.

 

Now I don't know if the Full Marks will harm her, whether I can leave it on her - or do I need to wash it off?!

 

I don't suppose anyone else has any experiences with this?!...

 

I'm worried it was the wrong rash decision. but I also need to treat the rest of the flock as they have a couple of lice too (but nowhere near as bad)...

 

I'll get some Johnsons Anti-Mite for the others.

[Patricia W]

Hi Romany

 

I've no idea - but someone else may know, so I'll bump this back up for you

 

Tricia

[Romany]

Thanks Patricia!

 

Here's a bit of an update too:

I noticed that her skin had several patches of tiny blood blisters, and feeling very guilty I wondered if she was reacting to the Full Marks and it was making her sting - hence still being unwell, weak and not eating drinking.

 

I washed her in warm slightly soapy water (Full Marks is an oily liquid) and gently blow dried her. It was a warm sunny day and I made sure she was wrapped in a towel and not exposed... but she did seem to go downhill again and I realised her face and comb were going grey and darkening, and she is a bit sunken round the eyes (probably dehydration).

 

I managed to get some rolled oats mixed with live yoghurt and honey into her, and syringed water in. She seemed to perk up slightly so stupidly I put her back in the run with the other hens in case she was getting lonely... an hour later I found her lying lifeless on her side being pecked to death (literally) by the others

 

I didn't expect her to last the night as she was so weak. But this morning she was still with us!! That said, she hasn't eaten a thing all day. I have syringed water in to her again and towards the end of the day she even took some water of her own accord.

 

So still no eating, still weak (falls over to the left easily, wobbles and stumbles), better colour but still pale and peaky. Poos are watery but the right colour at least. Thinking about it her poo has been watery for a few weeks now but I put it down to her being fairly low down in the pecking order and not getting that much to eat... I was about to worm her, but she seems too weak now - maybe that is the problem...

 

I just don't know what's going on!

Is she anaemic from the lice (they didn't seem THAT bad!)

Has she had a stroke?

Has she got bad worms?

Have I poisoned her with Full Marks? (Cyclomethicone Isopropyl myristate)

Has she eaten something poisonous?

Did I give her hypothermia?

Or something else entirely?

 

I'm worried and also feeling guilty that I may be partially to blame for the decline in her condition. I have had her since she was a week old - she's 21 weeks now and not yet laying.

If anyone has any brainwaves or suggestions then I'd appreciate them! I can't think what it might be. My local vets know nothing about chickens either.

[Patricia W]

Romany

 

There is a wonderful vet in Reading that someone uses. But I can't remember his name! i think it was Cinnamon? Try PM ing her. Otherwise the Larkmead surgery near me in Sutton Courtney ( near Didcot) does chickens. You do need a vet.

 

I hope she recovers

 

Tricia

[Lydia]

I think the vet that Patricia W was thinking of is Bruce Maclean who operates out of the Abbey Vets surgery on London Road, Reading but is independent of them. He's an avian specialist and I and a few others use him. He's brilliant, always ready to try and help and never goes for the "oh let's just put her to sleep" option first. He's cheaper than other vets too.

 

Here's his contact details - http://www.herpvet.co.uk/BEAVS%20Information%20&%20Policies.htm

 

I'm sorry I really don't know about head lice solutions (thankfully I've never had to deal with such nasties) but I hope your hen improves. Give me a shout if I can do anything though, I'm only down the road in Woodley.

[Egluntyne]

I agree ....she needs to see a vet, poor thing.

[Chook n Boo Mum]

How worrying for you Romany , any news yet?

 

Sha x

[Romany]

Thanks so much for the vet details - I have kept them for future reference.

But I'm afraid it was too late for this one as she deteriorated overnight again and so was PTS before I went to work

 

Looking back I think she may have had an underlying problem. If I hadn't gone on holiday I might've picked up on it soon enough to help but I think by the time I got back whatever the problem was too far gone... I can't find any articles about poisoning by the ingredients of the head lice solution, but I would certainly advise against using it just in case.

 

Ho hum...

 

My 6 year old daughter is staying at nanny's, she will be devastated when I tell her

 

Best update my signature at some point!

[Chook n Boo Mum]

Sorry to hear this Romany , you can only do your best and sometimes they are just too poorly to be pulled back whatever we do

 

{{{hugs}}} to you and your DD, and RIP little chook

 

Sha x

[Patricia W]

So sorry, Romany. You did all you could.

 

Tricia

[Romany]

Thanks for your support - much appreciated.

 

I'm OK about it - it's sad but I'm fairly experienced so not exactly new to this type of situation. I did rather like Leggit though - she was such a character!

 

It's the kids I feel sorry for - they get ever so attached and it will really break their little hearts

[Guest]

Hi

 

Had a bad chicken experience today with maggots and the chicken also died. I really doubt that full marks would kill your chicken as for humans it would go through really stringent tests etc and is used on children too. But you are supposed to wash full marks out of the hair. I doubt it would have harmed the chicken, it usually makes hair nice and soft.

 

After my experience today and speaking to farmers etc re sheep and flystrike it seems to be a case of literally de maggoting the animal. They do get a special product(I think its like an antibiotic) but one of them said its really hard to kill maggots even by dipping sheep.

 

The chicken that died today prior to me seeing it a more experienced chicken keeper said I bet its had a poo bottom, and when I arrived it did and we dunked it in some hibiscrub etc big clumps of faeces were attached to the vent area. I pulled them all off

 

So I can appreciate now why omleters on here do clean their chickens bottoms if they get faeces as the flies will lay their eggs on the faeces which in turn maggots etc

 

One of the farmers suggested Gentian Violet?? not sure if anyone else thinks that would help??

 

Sorry about your chicken indie

[The Dogmother]

Hi Romany

 

I don't know whether the ingredients of Full Marks (cyclomethicone and isopropyl myristate) are toxic to chooks, but I'd hesitate to use it myself.

 

It is likely that the lice homed in on her if she was weak from another infection/condition; it is very unlikely that a hen will die from a mite/lice infestation. See this thread for tips on dealing with the lice; it needs vigilance and persevearnce I'm afraid.

 

Good luck

[Chucky Mama]

Sorry to hear your news Romany. I have found out a little about Full Marks for you. Phenothrin is the main chemical in Full Marks which is a synthetic insecticidal similar to that used in some pet shop insecticidals. It was removed from products for cats when it was found to be toxic to them. I did find that "Skin contact can cause a rash, itching, or blisters" but this was in one of those articles that made it out to be some sort of awful toxin. I suspect that this quote is only relevant when it is used in a 'worse case' senario i.e having a bath in it on a weekly basis I have been unable to find any reference specifically to say that it is toxic to chickens. Whilst I wouldn't personally recommend it in chickens I would doubt if you are justified in beating yourself up about using it. Your poor girls sounds like she too poorly to save by the time you treated her with the Full Marks.

[The Dogmother]

Thanks for the advice CM

[Romany]

Thanks very much for your research. I am feeling a little less guilty these days...

 

I really don't think the Full Marks killed her either - probably wasn't the best choice of product but I panicked... it was my first ever case of lice (in 5 years of chicken keeping!!) and I thought she was crawling with them. Now that I have seen more pictures on the net of lice infestations I realise that she had a very mild case, just that she was a bit worse than the others (I only found a max of 3 little lice on each of the others you see!)

 

I think she might have had something wrong with her from the start. I was given her as a chick and I now remember the breeder saying that I could have her for free as she wasn't 100% about her health... I also now realise that her growth was poor too and she had been eating progressively less for many weeks.

 

So the signs were all there, I just didn't give it enough attention to piece it all together in time as I was kidding myself that there was no problem.

 

The poo in the run is all looking a lot healthier since she's gone too! And I have just wormed the rest of the flock (long overdue) and seen a dead worm in a poo - so chances are she had worms too and it all just became too much for her. Especially when I panicked again about the Full Marks and washed and blow-dried her - how stressful must that have been for the poor sickly thing. I'm usually so calm and rational, I don't know what came over me... I think it was my daughter's devastation at the seriousness of her condition made me desperate to 'do something' to save her!

 

Live and learn, live and learn...

[The Dogmother]

Don't worry Romany, we've all been there.

 

As you said, she was probably ailing anyway and the lice just homed in on her. Make sure that the rest of the flock and the housing are treated too. Lice (as opposed to mites) generally only live on the bird, but you get the odd ones dropping off in the nest etc. That's how they pick them up from wild birds.

[Romany]

Don't worry, as soon as the Johnson's arrived they all got a quick spray under the feathers, jet washed and sprayed the house, diatommed it when dry, etc. and no sign of the little blighters since