Omlet server

[majorbloodnock]

Actually major, its more than 25% Waitrose confirmed to me that less than 40% of male calves in any of its dairy farms (including organic) go on to any type of meat production. I too abhor the waste...but no-one wants to pay the going rate for a pint of milk, and so commercial dairy farms use breeds that produce milk but not good meat cattle. I'm not sure that the heiffers would agree with your statement that there isn't anything inherently inhumane about dispaching ( a perfectly healthy) animal at a few hours old.....they remain distressed for some time after. Thing is...we won't change the world until we cut the supermarkets down to size.......

 

The figures I was using were ones I got from Milkmyths.org.uk (specifically the page at http://milkmyths.org.uk/report/calvesunwanted.php). About half of all male calves born are beef breeds, so go on to be reared for meat, whilst about half of the remainder (dairy breeds) are also destined for the meat industry as lower grade meat. That leaves about 25% that are killed at birth as a national average, although naturally there will be big variations from this average within particular herds. Indeed, if Waitrose's suppliers have herds that produce calves of predominantly dairy breeds, you could easily see precisely the 60% mortality rate you've been given.

 

Interestingly, despite my natural dislike of supermarkets, this is one area where they're using their clout in at least partially positive ways. It seems most of the major supermarkets are applying a lot of pressure to their suppliers not to transport their calves abroad for the veal market and to rear them as rose veal in the UK with all the welfare considerations that entails.

 

Whether or not dispatching a young healthy animal is in itself inhumane is an opinion that depends on your views of killing animals generally. I believe that, since everything is going to die at some point, a quick and sudden death is more morally acceptable than either a slow one, or a quick one after a life of mistreatment. I do eat meat, and have no problem justifying killing animals in order that I and my family can eat. I am prepared to personally carry out the deed myself, so long as two criteria are met - that the death is quick and as little as possible of the animal is then wasted (i.e. the number of animals killed for me to eat is minimised). In short, I don't treat animal deaths as insignificant, but I do accept them.

[sadietoo]

Fair do's Major....if you are happy eating meat, and happy even to do the deed 'cos you like eating it..then good luck to you. I became vegetarian many years ago, not as a conscience issue, but because I can't stand the taste of any type of meat ( nor could my Dad and he was born on a farm!!), and I suppose it's true to say I have become more of a conscience veggie the longer I have been one. My husband and daughter are also vegetarian, but my son still eats meat ( but not much) which I buy at the local organic farm shop.

 

How an animal is treated during its life is very important to me and as you can no doubt gather from my previous posts, I have given up dairy (in the UK at least) because I absolutely abhor the treatment of calves and heifers in the dairy industry here (whichever of our statistics you choose).

 

As to the supermarkets...the day a supermarket does anything which doesn't attempt to increase it's profits at the cost of the supplier, you'll be able to add pig's wings to your barbie

[Janty]

One of the mothers is winging on the radio at the moment stating her version of the facts. As usual with this sort of thing, no-one from the school is there to give their side of the story.

 

The headteacher was allowed to put her point across when the story first broke last week (might have seen that on South East Today so not everyone will have seen that). As per usual though she was then completely misreported. Paul O'Grady was interviewed saying he thought it unkind to let the pupils rear the lamb for 3 years to then send it to slaughter. 3 YEARS???????? The headteacher said they had had him since March this year.

 

I for one applaud what she tried to do with the children. Case of an over protective mother springs to mind!!

 

All's I meant was that there were lots of people on the show ranting on about the headmistress and how she had 'failed to show compassion', etc (it got worse as the evening progressed) when she was not there to defend herself. There were some sensible people later on who talked about teaching children where their food comes from but the comments from some of the people were appauling. She was being portrayed in an awful manner...totally unfair.

[majorbloodnock]

...As to the supermarkets...the day a supermarket does anything which doesn't attempt to increase it's profits at the cost of the supplier, you'll be able to add pig's wings to your barbie

 

He, he. I certainly didn't mean to suggest they were being altruistic....

 

I'm pretty certain the supermarkets are only promoting "ethical" veal so they can market themselves as "ethical" companies and charge us for the privilege. Nonetheless, I suppose the law of averages suggests that sooner or later there'll come a time when any company finds ethics and profit coinciding for a short while, in the same way a busted clock still actually manages to be accurate twice a day.

[The Dogmother]

Luckily, we can buy organic milk from a local herd - small enterprise run by a local organic veg box family. Just a few cows and they sometimes don't have any milk depending on whether they are in calf, the boys are all reared for grown up beef.

[WitchHazel]

I agree - we did think about raising some little calves as Rose Veal, we're still thinking about it.

 

I was vegetarien for 25 years but now eat meat we have reared - a very steep learning curve for me. but i was never against animals being reared for meat, just the conditions in which they were reared.

 

Lesley, you aren't my husband's ex-wife are you?

 

She became a vegetarian when they spilit (not related to the split) 25 years ago; she moved to France with her replacement husband a few years ago, and they started to rear animals for meat as he is a carnivore. She has now said she's contemplating eating the meat from animals they raise themselves.

[Saronne]

When we buy POL hens, or eggs from the shops, remember the fate of the majority of those boy chicks...

 

 

Saronne

[Lesley]

Very true Saronne - many people make judgement calls without looking at their own actions and any impact they may have.

 

I agree - we did think about raising some little calves as Rose Veal, we're still thinking about it.

 

I was vegetarian for 25 years but now eat meat we have reared - a very steep learning curve for me. but i was never against animals being reared for meat, just the conditions in which they were reared.

 

Lesley, you aren't my husband's ex-wife are you?

 

She became a vegetarian when they spilit (not related to the split) 25 years ago; she moved to France with her replacement husband a few years ago, and they started to rear animals for meat as he is a carnivore. She has now said she's contemplating eating the meat from animals they raise themselves.

 

No, I am somebody's ex-wife but I didn't move to France so it can't be me!

I often wonder who I might be 'speaking' to on here!

[Snowy]

I agree with everyone's statements on here - I can't believe how people can be so closeminded about where their food comes from

 

In a similar vein, when we were on holiday this summer, it was on a semi self sufficient small holding/campsite. While we were there some sheep got onto the road and one was hit by a car. It had been quite badly injured, so rather than try treating it, it was slaughtered and butchered. All the children on the campsite were well aware of what was happening, including mine (age 4 & 6), and they found it completely fascinating. I was amazed that they showed both sorrow for the poor hurt sheep, but could see the practicalities of not letting it go to waste and were totally fascinated by the whole butchering bit. We had some very educational conversations after that incident!

[Lesley]

Def, France then Snowy - you wouldn't get away with it here

[Snowy]

Def, France then Snowy - you wouldn't get away with it here

 

It was France! But I have to add that it was the registred slaughterer and butcher guy who came out and did the deed I was surprised that they weren't allowed to do it themselves!