Chicken picking at feet

[Ygerna]

All children from the age of 3 are entitled to a free preschool place, up to 2.5hrs a day, or 12 hours a week.

 

I have recently discovered that our council does not pay enough to the preschool our son attends to cover the full fee.

 

The maths.

 

Sessions are 3 hours long.

Sessions cost £12.

 

12 divided my 3 = £4

 

2.5 hrs = £10

0.5hrs = £2

 

The council pay £9.17 and not £10.

 

The preschool have tried to pass this shortfall onto the parents but I have refused to pay it. I am currently emailing the council and my local MP.

 

The reason for my post is to enquire whether anyone else is in this situation at all please?

 

Next year the funding will cover (supposedly) 3 hrs a day, up to 15 hrs a week. No idea how thats going to work.

[PurpleTree]

That doesn't seem like very good planning. Our nursery sessions are 2 1/2 hours so we don't have a problem. Although they are full by the time Olly turns 3 in March, so he can't go until the following September.

 

How you manage to sort it out.

[Cooks]

I work at a nursery and the shortfall is met by the parents.

[Old Speckled Hen]

We used to sub our grandson. He's at "proper school" now.

It will get worse.

I read that there is no way the government can save money, in the NHS for example, by cutbacks across the board. The only way will be by closure of entire "units". By which I presume they mean hospitals.

They have made a real mess of our local hospital which has to serve a population older than the national average.

[Ygerna]

I work at a nursery and the shortfall is met by the parents.

 

See, my argument is that should not BE a shortfall. If the government say its a free place then its a free place. They can't say its a free place, well 'almost' free. It either it is, or it isn't.

 

Next year when it goes to 3 hours a day how are they going to pass on the 'bill' for the shortfall to the parents

 

I would happily pay for the place but, I just can't understand how the Gorverment can shout out about all these 'free' places when, actually they are not free, at best they are subsidised.

[Griffin]

My mother-in-law is ghastly and the only advantage to being related to her is that she owns a privately run nursery and Georgia goes for free

[Old Speckled Hen]

If the government say its a free place then its a free place. They can't say its a free place, well 'almost' free. It either it is, or it isn't.

 

 

I would happily pay for the place but, I just can't understand how the Gorverment can shout out about all these 'free' places when, actually they are not free, at best they are subsidised.

 

That's because politicians lie so that we vote for them.

We just have to do the best we can

[majorbloodnock]

Without wishing to get into the shoulds and should nots of the situation, legally a nursery is not allowed to levy any fee in relation to the free sessions, nor charge in advance on the premise of refunding later when the payment comes in from the local authority. The entitlement is specified in time (12.5 hours per week over 38 weeks) rather than money.

 

I don't know whether or not a nursery is legally obliged to be part of this free entitlement scheme.

[Cooks]

I believe they are leagel obliged Major, the only part our parents pay for is the extra bit to cover up to 3 hours and an optional lunchclub if they want it.

[Ygerna]

As I understand it, any additional services have to be optional to ensure that no one is discriminated against because they can't afford to pay for the extras on top.

 

If the preschool ARE charging for the extras, such as snack time, and the extra half an hour, then as parents we should be able to see that, the invoice should be transparent with a breakdown of what these extras cost so we can choose to have them or not.

 

As it is my invoive simply states the session costs £12, then I have a total of that for the half term, with another figure telling me how much the funding is, and what the shortfall is to pay. When I worked it out, I saw that I was being asked to pay more than the £2 I expected to pay. When I asked why, I was told that it was because the grant didn't cover the full 2.5 sessions. Not that there were extra, optional services that I could choose to have.

 

From where I am it looks to me as if the Government AND the preschool are doing their best to have their cake and eat it. At our expense.

[carrie]

I work in a day nursery and the entitlement is 12.5 free hours per week for 38 weeks of the year. They are not allowed to charge you extra for those 38 weeks. However what they can charge for is when the nursery is open for more than 38 weeks and for any additional hours, lunchtime, food etc. But you should get the 12.5 hours for 38 weeks free. Where I work we are in the 15 hours a week trial, and parents are still not charged any extra if this is all they use.

[majorbloodnock]

As it is my invoice simply states the session costs £12, then I have a total of that for the half term, with another figure telling me how much the funding is, and what the shortfall is to pay.

 

And that, specifically, is something they're not allowed to do. If your child spends 50 hours a week at the nursery, and is entitled to free preschool sessions, the nursery can only invoice you for 37.5 hours. It makes no difference whether the 12.5 hours would have been charged at £1 per hour or £1,000 per hour; your child's entitlement is 12.5 hours, not a monetary equivalent. If, as Cookie suggests (and I suspect she's right), a nursery is obliged to offer this free time, it's a non-negotiable part of doing business, just like insurance, so should be accepted as such.

[Cooks]

I agree, ours is clearly outlined so they opt in or out whatever they want to do.

 

We have some that stay for optional lunchclub and some that do not, its their choice. When we fill out the funding forms they are very clear where we put the amount of hours a child is actually present atour setting (sometimes the child goes to more than one setting) and that is where shared funding would apply.

I hope that makes sense it's well before my second cup of coffee..

 

off to see the little darlings now..

[~lizzy~]

HI Folks

blimey, seeing it written down its even confusing me. I have worked in nurseries for too many years to count them but to confirm what others are saying, you should not be charged for what is called "a top up fee"

this has been debated for several years between the government and private nursery owners as it is slowly crippling private nursery owners. Some may get away with it not all authorities are as hot as others.

 

Many nurseries will add the cost onto say the lunch hour cost something else.

[Madeleine]

My youngest daughter is in year 2 now, but when she was at nursery they had to stop using the government scheme altogether. Her nursery cost £15 per 2.5 hour session, because they had more staff than the minimum requirement. We paid top up fees to cover this amount. Unfortunately, the rules over top up fees changed, so we had to pay full amount for each session. It worked out quite expensive!

 

For some reason, the nurseries attached to independent schools can still claim the government voucher because they are open from 8am to 6pm. The rules have harmed people running private nurseries. I'm glad that I do not have to worry about nursery fees any more!

[Cooks]

Any child over the age of 3 is entitled to a free 2.5hr nursery place from the term they turn 3 BUT it is not 'a free nursery place' it is a 'free 2.5hr nursery place'. If the nursery is open longer and you choose to keep the child there longer then the nursery is allowed to charge for this as staff have to be paid and there is a legal requirement to how many staff need to be present at all times.

 

Nurseries are not however allowed to charge you during your 2.5 free nursery place voucher. If the nursery opens all day you are able to claim 2 free nursery vouchers.