Storms and chickens

[clare*]

I just wondered does your school grit the play ground?

 

Our village school has stopped doing it. As a result the kids are kept in all day with no out door play as most of the playground is in the shade and is literally an ice rink.

 

We were told if they grit it and there is an accident the school can be held responsible. Surely if its not gritted and someone goes flying that could have the same consequence.

 

The last few days have been lovely and bright and the poor kids have been stuck in hot stuffy classrooms.

[Guest]

well, our junior school shortened the lessons so that the children could play outside for longer! I don't know about gritting though.

[The Dogmother]

Our school does grit the playground, but from doing the H&S at our office, I know that of you do grit it and soemone has an accident on it then they are entitled to sue you. This is because you have attempted to make it safe and thus assumed responsibility for the safety of anyone using it.

 

Don't moan at me - I'm only repeating the tosh that we get quoted by the HSE

[Cate in NZ]

OK, I'm getting ready to moderate myself here because I'm going completely off topic

But Clare*........ new location, surely

Do I take it that you've got a new job? It looks like a great place to work as well .

Congratulations.

 

Back to gritting playgrounds....... sorry, I haven't got a clue , but both of mine are at secondary school now, although I'd suggest that teenagers can be just as at risk of slipping in the ice as little ones. I'll ask my 2 when they get home this afternoon.

Certainly it sounds really unfair on the children to keep them cooped up in stuffy classrooms when it's dry and bright outside, and they just want to play and burn up some energy.

Probably not that great for the teachers who have to try and teach them after they've not had a proper run around and break from the classroom either .

[The Dogmother]

Surely if its not gritted and someone goes flying that could have the same consequence.

 

 

Sorry, Clare - missed that bit

 

If it's not gritted then it's down to the 'slippee' to take 'due care and attention'. Our company secretary did check this a couple of years ago when we had lots of snow and our front carpark/drive was covered. I was all for gritting it, but they said not to - crazy, I know

[SarahJo]

YES ..... but I will clarify the issue of to sue or not to sue, when I go in to due the lunch duty. Must admit, without grit the kids (sorry Lesley, know you hate the term), play skids on any patch of ice/snow they can find, BUT when the playground is dry/wet with grit on, its even better for skidding on. .

 

Will check in later and add heads thoughts on this.

[Lesley]

 

I can tell you through bitter experience that if it is not gritted and someone goes flying and consequently makes a claim against the school then the school can say it was not icy.

 

That is exactly what happened to me 4 years ago - I had a Met Office report which was 'inconclusive' and a complete waste of time and money. It ended up as my word against that of the Head and no Barrister would touch it.

 

I had a witness statement to testify that the ground was extremely dangerous on that day - the school produced a witness who said it wasn't

 

Schools are in a far better position if they don't grit.

[SarahJo]

Whether right or wrong .. our school grtis. Though the head is well aware of the legislation tec which goes with the issue. Today all the surface grit had been swept up, as the small stones were embedding in the soles of shoes and kids were slipping on that .

 

Either way I think its a shame for the kids if they cannopt go out to play if its too cold/wet/windy/slippery/gritty etc ...... I personally disperse the puddles if its been raining (with a large brush), so the playground is then dry enough for playing out .

[clare*]

The world has gone mad!!

 

So it's better for the playground to be dangerous both to children and parents coming in and out of the playground and surely more risk of an accident, rather than gritting it and just slightly, maybe someone still might fall.

 

They did get to play out however today hoorah! I think some parents must of had some salt trickling out of holes in pockets over the last icy corner.

 

Yes, I do work for Omlet now. I work for the USA branch of Omlet, dealing with our overseas customers. :

[Lesley-Jean]

And another thing which a lot of people are not aware of:

 

If you clear and grit your house path and the postman slips, he can sue you.

 

If you leave the ice or snow laying on the path and he slips, it's his fault and he can't sue you

[Egluntyne]

This appears to be an H&S minefield!

 

However, I got this from the Health and Safety Executive Website.......on their Slips and Trips page

 

http://www.hse.gov.uk/slips/index.htm

 

From the faqs page.

 

Ice, frost and snow

 

To reduce the risk of slips on ice, frost or snow, you need to assess the risk and put in a system to manage it.

 

1. Identify the outdoor areas used by pedestrians most likely to be affected by ice, for example: - building entrances, car parks, pedestrian walkways, shortcuts, sloped areas and areas constantly in the shade or wet.

2. Monitor the temperature, as prevention is key.

* You need to take action whenever freezing temperatures are forecast. Keep up to date by visiting a weather service site

o Met office website

o BBC weather website

o Highways agency website

* There are also smart signs on the market, available to buy at low cost, which display warning messages at 5 0 and below.

3. Put a procedure in place to prevent an icy surface forming and/or keep pedestrians off the slippery surface

* Use grit (see separate article below for more detail) or similar, on areas prone to be slippery in frosty, icy conditions.

* Consider covering walkways e.g. by an arbour high enough for people to walk through, or use an insulating material on smaller areas overnight.

* Divert pedestrians to less slippery walkways and barrier off existing ones.

4. If warning cones are used, remember to remove them once the hazard has passed or they will eventually be ignored

 

Gritting – the pros and cons

 

The most common method used to de-ice floors is gritting as it is relatively cheap, quick to apply and easy to spread. Rock salt (plain and treated) is the most commonly used ‘grit’. It is the substance used on public roads by the highways authority.

 

Salt can stop ice forming and cause existing ice or snow to melt. It is most effective when it is ground down, but this will take far longer on pedestrian areas than on roads.

 

No tests have been carried out on how much grit to use. As a guide, on roads a rate of approximately 10-15gms/m 2 for precautionary salting and 20-40gms/m2 during ice and snow conditions is recommended.

 

Gritting should be carried out when frost, ice or snow is forecast or when walkways are likely to be damp or wet and the floor temperatures are at, or below freezing. The best times are early in evening before the frost settles and/or early in the morning before employees arrive. Salt doesn’t work instantly; it needs sufficient time to dissolve into the moisture on the floor.

 

If you grit when it is raining heavily the salt will be washed away, causing a problem if the rain then turns to snow. Compacted snow, which turns to ice, is difficult to treat effectively with grit. Be aware that ‘dawn frost’ can occur on dry surfaces, when early morning dew forms and freezes on impact with the cold surface. It can be difficult to predict when or where this condition will occur.

 

 

It seems to me that if you have a policy in place, keep records and put warning signs up, you can at least prove that you have followed current advice.

 

After all, the local authorities grit roads, (supposedly) and I don't suppose anyone has sued the council if the have skidded on an icy road.