My eco solution to rat problems

[SarahJo]

My boys came home to say there was a swarm down the road - went to investigate and right enough they were settling in a neighbours tree

 

Phoned the council to get a beekeeper contact - out of hours, so did not have any info Then googled local beekeepers and found a lovely chap, who has now taken the swarm. My boys loved the taste of honey from the honeycomb he brought with him, and he let them hold a drone bee - after reassurances it would not sting . Learnt much about 's and the neighbour was glad I had called someone as he would have just got pest control

 

Hope I did the right thing - the chap that came has lost 8 out of 9 hives due to bad winters etc, and says this year hopefully will be a better one for the 's the weather so far has been good for them.

 

What an eventful saturday afternoon

[Daphne]

You certainly did the right thing - winter losses have been high for some people, so you've helped somebody who is obviously experienced get back on his feet, your boys have had some fun and some honeycomb (which is getting rarer and more expensive to buy!), and your neighbour no longer has a problem - all at the same time. Result all around I'd say

[SarahJo]

Bit spooky really as OH and I were chatting last night about Bees and swarms - then .......

 

Glad I was in and the boys got to see a swarm being caught and rehomed. We asked loads of questions ..... and I am really now quite in awe of the little I do already know quite alot about nature/wildlife/zoolife .... but Mother Nature still makes me think "WOW"

 

Hope all the beekeepers have a better year

[v8landy]

Hope I did the right thing - the chap that came has lost 8 out of 9 hives due to bad winters etc, and says this year hopefully will be a better one for the 's the weather so far has been good for them.

 

 

Hate to be the spanner in the works, but a beekeeper with losses that high might have more of an issue than bad winters?

 

Yes it was the worst winter in 30 years but bee losses due to cold have been negligable...bee losses due to poor beekeeping are high (as normal)

[Lesley]

Hate to be the spanner in the works, but a beekeeper with losses that high might have more of an issue than bad winters?

 

Yes it was the worst winter in 30 years but bee losses due to cold have been negligable...bee losses due to poor beekeeping are high (as normal)

 

A lot of long-standing beekeepers in our local association must be poor beekeepers then! Even speaking to a third generation beekeeper on the Farmers' Market revealed that they have suffered more losses over this winter than they would normally expect. As they are a commercial enterprise - albeit on a fairly small scale - I would have thought that they were reasonably good at looking after their bees.

 

Glad to hear that the bees were rehomed Sarah - and what a treat for your boys to see all that went on

[v8landy]

As they are a commercial enterprise - albeit on a fairly small scale - I would have thought that they were reasonably good at looking after their bees.

 

 

You mean like the commercial bee farmers of the USA!

 

Commercial does not allways mean for the good of the live-stock.

[Lesley]

As they are a commercial enterprise - albeit on a fairly small scale - I would have thought that they were reasonably good at looking after their bees.

 

 

You mean like the commercial bee farmers of the USA!

 

Commercial does not allways mean for the good of the live-stock.

 

No, as I said, small scale - and definitely not farmed in the same way as in the US.

Edited June 9, 2010 by Guest

[Olly]

I agree Lesley, reported losses in my area are higher than normal, and this is from some very experienced bee keepers, not beginners.

[chickenanne]

Same here - really high losses over the winter. Am sure SOME is down to beekeepers - lack of stores, etc - but nosema seemed like a big cause for our area too - was so cold for so long which led to a lack of opportunity for cleansing flights likely to make nosema worse. And "Ooops, word censored!"ody our way seems to treat for nosema "just in case". Am sure more people will check for it (or get someone with a microscope to) this autumn though!

Also, summer was dreadful which seems to have lead to lots of poorly-mated queens becoming drone layers in early spring, which is pretty difficult to do anything about.

There were three long-standing feral colonies (monitored over the last 10 years or so) which all died out over the winter, too, so is not entirely fair to say entirely due to beekeeping IMO.

 

However, definitely did the right thing in getting the bees collected by a local beekeeper rather than letting the local pest-controller loose on them! Hopefully with the publicity re: bees more people will do this now.

[v8landy]

Same here - really high losses over the winter. Am sure SOME is down to beekeepers - lack of stores, etc - but nosema seemed like a big cause for our area too - was so cold for so long which led to a lack of opportunity for cleansing flights likely to make nosema worse. And "Ooops, word censored!"ody our way seems to treat for nosema "just in case". .

 

But this is my point. You say the usual things like stores, but then it is not down to the beekeepers because they got nosema! It is!

 

Just like Varroa, pre treat for it by a bit of Thymol in their winter feed, and then first thing in spring.

[chickenanne]

But....it's unusual for it to be so cold for so long. So cleansing flights were unusually difficult... so making nosema unusually problematic. Yes, nosema can be near-eradicated before the winter, but it would be exceptional for a large colony going into the winter to suffer with it without treatment- becuase they would be able to take cleansing flights at least every month ordinarily.

Nosema is beekeeper-preventable, but I hesitate to say that it is a mark of truely BAD beekeeping where nosema is an issue during SUCH an unusually long winter. Equally, as said already, I'm sure people will now check for nosema pre-winter having learned that lesson.

[SarahJo]

Errr ...... I have no idea what you are all on about, but do know that for a couple of years now it has been reported on the BBC about declining bees and hive losses. This was primarily why I went the extra mile to get the swarm rehomed even though they were not in my garden.

 

The man who collected the bees was very competent IMO and it may have been over a couple of years rather than 1 winter that he had lost hives ( I was asking s and watching the swarm along with my 2 lads - so might have heard wrong) - either way I thought rehoming irrespective of bee husbandry was a better option than rentokil

 

I would like to think I would do the same again - and not be put off by whether or not the person has equivalent of a CRB in bees

 

Hope your hives are ok Lesley - the boys were intrigued and even less wary after watching the swarm and chatting to the beekeeper. Amazing little creatures really -

[Old Speckled Hen]

Thymol in the winter feed is supposed to help; at least that's what I'm hoping to do.

You could always get some bees tested in the autumn and treat with fumidil but I'd rather go the more "organic" (is that the right word? anyway I mean less chemical) way.

[v8landy]

but I'd rather go the more "organic" (is that the right word? anyway I mean less chemical) way.

 

I am sure we would all like to (I would like to) but until things are under control, people not treating is not helping the cause.

 

You often hear from non beekeepers about the "insect that is killing off you bees", Oh you mean Varroa I say, not an issue, all hive have it but it is treatable to keep it under a safe level. Like wise for Nosema.

 

Until that day, there are proven ways to treat this things, so why not use them. You take medicines when you or your other pets or livestock are ill, so why not bees?

[Old Speckled Hen]

Well I was thinking of adding thymol to the winter feed anyway but should I have the bees tested for nosema and treat with fumidil if they are affected? If they are clear then I wouldn't have to give them the thymol.

I'm new to this so forgive my ignorance but is a test the normal thing to do every autumn?

I'm happy giving the bees anything that will keep them thriving.

[chickenanne]

Re: testing for nosema (in late summer) - certainly round me it wasn't "normal" at all, BUT maybe it should have been given peoples' experiences over the winter? I only know of people testing when there appeared to be an issue. I would definitely not treat "just-in-case" (I don't want to use chemicals - either naturally derived (thymol) or made in a test tube (fumidal B) - without good reason). But I might be tempted to test "just in case".

 

Re: the rehoming of the swarm - totally agree you did the right thing in calling local beek assoc, and IMO all beekeepers /people with an interest in them should encourage people to do the same as SarahJo. Regardless of why the person had high witner losses (could have been anything, after all) it's definitely a laudable thing for a non-beek to do! We do seem to have wandered off on quite some tangent here!

[v8landy]

: and the neighbour was glad I had called someone as he would have just got pest control

 

Hope I did the right thing

 

 

Has gone a little off topic, but all within the spirt of beekeeping.

 

But realy YES, the orginal poster went out of their way to get the bees to a better location than pest controler

[v8landy]

. I would definitely not treat "just-in-case"!

 

I really think that until bee numbers / losses are back in control it is every beekeepers priority to not loose their hives and worst of all not pass on infection to others.

 

So I would still argue that if XYorZ is available to treat to prevent it should be used.

 

And consider cutting or stopping imports of queens, which one of the biggest threats is currently that the Small hive beetle gets to this country..then we will have a major problem.

 

Increasing stocks is not hard with bees is not hard (they do most of the work). I am now at 200% of what I started with this spring, and that followed zero winter losses. I will be selling most of these nucs off over the next few weeks.

[Guest]

Thymol is not a panacea for healthy bees overwintering. There are other issues. Importation of queens which are inappropriate for our climatic conditions is one. The varroa issue is another. Yes, Nosema is another. Hive ventilation is yet another. Colony size, yet another. There are others.

 

It is the beekeeper's duty to anticipate the worst scenario and treat the bees accordingly. I lost one colony mysteriously last winter; a very strong colony with copious stores available, no heavy varroa load and no signs of nosema. It happens. The rest over-wintered marvellously. No oxalic acid treatment needed or given.

 

How do you think they cope in Scandinavia or Canada? A hard, cold winter is a better situation than a cold and wet winter. The bees in the outside corner of the window in Warwickshire demonstrated that. They survived without any help.

 

So yes, it is not the fault of the bees that they were unable to survive, when many others, 'in the same boat' had minimal losses. I don't really take into account 'one hive owners' here as one colony loss represents 100% in each case.

 

Let's get real. If there are high losses there should be a root cause which can be investigated and rectified. I usually know why my bees have succumbed; not rocket science, in most cases.

 

No swarms should be destroyed without good reason. It is estimated that only 25% survive for more than a year in the 'wild', so they do have a better chance in 'captivity'. They should get every chance when housed in a well administered organised home.

 

Regards, RAB

[Old Speckled Hen]

No oxalic acid treatment needed or given.

 

 

 

Regards, RAB

Rab, I know it's like discussing the length of a piece of string .........but

what would your criteria for NOT using oxalic acid in the winter be?

[v8landy]

Thymol is not a panacea for healthy bees overwintering. There are other issues.

 

RAB is quite right, I focused on one point that was discussed and assumed all the other poits would be covered as per modern beekeeping managment.

 

It is the beekeeper's duty to anticipate the worst scenario and treat the bees accordingly.

 

:iagree:

 

 

So yes, it is not the fault of the bees that they were unable to survive, when many others, 'in the same boat' had minimal losses.

 

 

 

 

:iagree:

 

 

Bees know best but they also need some help.

[Guest]

No necessity to treat because infestation is very low.

 

Wishing to retain a queen or strain for breeding purposes.

 

To avoid other issues surrounding unnecessary medications - such as possible increased susceptibility to nosema infections causing colony loss at a later date.

 

To avoid any unnecessary interference with the colony in the winter.

 

Other methods of varroa control being more than adequate.

 

Very low varroa drop through OMF, on a regular testing regime.

 

Very simply, the oxalic acid is on the shelf and available if all else fails to hold the varroa issue in check. I prefer other treatments for the reasons above. My choice. Works very well for me (no varroa problem at this stage of the season with my bees and I don't expect there to be one until possibly later in the year, when other reasons for infestation increase can occur.

 

I certainly don't think that treating everything for everything is the best way to go. Some do. Their choice. Those that change all queens every year might be among that group.

 

I happen to have a 'flu jab each year, but I don't expect everyone would need one as much as me; I reckon I am better served by the regular jab. I reckon my bees are better served with me keeping a watchful eye on them rather than simply relying on infestation to be controlled at one point only and with a chemical that I can do without, most of the time.

 

Please feel free to pick holes in it, if you must. But be careful that you do not misquote me.

 

RAB

Edited June 12, 2010 by Guest

[Old Speckled Hen]

Thanks for that RAB, I have been monitoring varroa since I got my bees, changing the board at every inspection and, touch wood, all seems OK.

The thought of opening up a hive in the middle of winter and dribbling a liquid on the bees filled me with dismay so perhaps I might not have to

 

Please feel free to pick holes in it, if you must. But be careful that you do not misquote me.

 

RAB

 

Oh........... I wouldn't dare

 

You wouldn't be a teacher by any chance would you?

[Egluntyne]

Please feel free to pick holes in it, if you must. But be careful that you do not misquote me.

 

OSH won't misquote you as she is familiar with the use of the quote button **Instructions here**

[Old Speckled Hen]

OSH won't misquote you as she is familiar with the use of the quote button **Instructions here**