Sooo much pooping

[Ms Marple]

I really should be in another thread posting that we now have the roof on the walk-in palace, however, today also took a turn for the worse as I lost one of my birthday chicks to what the vet thought was Marek's disease

I was given two 13 week poland chicks for my birthday 6 weeks ago. One turned out to be a rather hansome male and he returned to the breeder last Monday. In his place I picked up another poland girl and a sablepoot. When I got home the boys said that they thought the remaining poland was missing her mate as she had been very quiet. For the rest of the week I have kept a close eye on her and the two newbies. I did think that she seemed a little quieter than previous but was clearly eating and drinking.

Last night none of them wanted to go into the eglu and I had lef them until it was nearly dark nad then had to get into the run to get them in. She did seem quite sleepy and a bit floppy but I thought nothing of it until this morning, when she did not come out of the eglu. I looked in and she was lying on her side. At first I thought she was dead, but then realised that she was breathing. I got her out to find that she had no feeling in her legs adbnd could not stand - no response of any description (muscle twitches etc).

Kept her warm and tried to get water into her whilst a tried to find a chicken vet. Found one, two towns away. They were really kind but both of them said that although they could try anitbiotics, they felt strongly that it wouldn't work and that the paralysis was irreversable. They were both pretty convinced it was Marek's disease and so I had her put to sleep (still makes me cry now nine hours later).

They were going to get back to me re my other two birds and the rest of my girls but haven't so far.

The little girls are well away from my big girls who are in an enclosed area. The little ones are tonight in the cat transporter in the garage. I am worried now in case they get it, or did they bring it in with them but are immune?

 

I have rung the breeder to tell her.She was very surprised and said that polands tend to be immune to Marek's - is that true? I suggestd that she keep an eye on the cockeral that I had swopped. She is a very good breeder I think and had an excellent set up when I went to visit last week. I am told that Marek's is caught from wild birds?

 

As usual a rather long post from me - any advice would be most welcome as to what to do next.

 

Update below

Edited August 21, 2010 by Guest

[Plum]

I'm so sorry but what you are doing sounds sensible. I would google as much as possible to find out about the disease to know how to act and look on other forums. I am sorry I have to go to work so can't do it now for you.

 

Big hugs what a rotten time for you when it should be so happy.

[Egluntyne]

Sorry to hear it Ms Marple.

 

Found this on 'tinerweb. I've not read it before, and have no idea whether it will work.

 

 

Hypericum must be diluted before it can be used:

 

Hypericum tablets can be bought from Health Food Shops and are believed to be effective in helping chickens survive Marek's disease. It's unknown whether this is a cure to the disease, or whether it simply allows them to survive the disease but continue to be a carrier for the rest of their lives.

 

To try save a chicken with Marek's disease, buy yourself some Hypericum tablets and do the following:

 

- mix 1 tablespoon of DISTILLED water per tablet Hypericum (must be distilled water, tap water is ionized and will deactivate the Hypericum)

 

- MUST be mixed in a GLASS or PLASTIC bowl (metal with react with the water and herb)

 

- drip 5-10 drops (bantam) or 10-15 drops (large fowl) on the afflicted bird's tongue. Be sure the bird rubs its beak together because the Hypericum MUST touch the sinuses (located on the roof of the mouth) in order to work

 

- treat every 12 hours (morning and night) with a fresh batch

 

- recovery may be as quick as 1 day or as slow as several months

 

I think you are doing the right thing in keeping the other two separated.

 

Did the breeder say whether they had been vaccinated?

[Daphne]

Firstly, I am sorry to hear your news, its always horrible to lose a bird

 

If it was mareks then it is possible that other birds from that breeder will be carriers but not succumb to it, but you'll never know unless other birds become infected. Take sensible precautions. Keep your newbies away from your other stock for 2 weeks or so (this is a bit arbitrary - I don't know if anybody knows what is the real safe quarantine period would be esp[ecially as you've had the problem present after 6 weeks. I had mareks from bought in stock which presented after about 10 days). I'd keep your existing small girls from that breeder away from your other stock as well for a while longer just to minimise the chance of infection. Mareks is spread on the air, by feather dander and other things (which could come from kept poultry or wild birds). So, as well as trying to minimise direct inhalation, keep your hygiene levels up as well.

 

No breed is immune to mareks, but some are more prone than others - one of these is, I'm afraid, sabelpoots. Given this is a well known fact about mareks - is there a chance the 'poot is vaccinated?

[Ms Marple]

Thanks for your thoughts all who have posted. Daphne, you have got me thinking now. She went downhill since the arrival of the two new birds from the same breeder - one another poland , the other the sablepoot. So now I am wondering if they brought it with them- but are immune themselves. I am poing to ask the breeder if she vaccinates her stock at birth. I am thinking that she may not be too happy if I suggest that it came with the two new birds. To be honest - my gut feeling is that it is simply nature at work and sometimes we are unlucky. That said I do not want it to spread. From my reading on the web this far, it would seem that Marek's is a disease of the very young- up to about 16 weeks (ish). If so the reast of my flock should be ok. I have always kept them separate from the little ones anyway.

Currently the two new ones are in quarantine- in the garage!!!

[Daphne]

Sounds sensible. Like you I felt I couldn't challenge the breeder because anything might have happened but I took the tack of saying 'I thought you might like to know so you can keep a close eye on the rest of your stock'. For what its worth this happened to me 2 years ago and since then I've had no problems. I have the dead birds sister and she's been fine, a proper little trooper!

[The Dogmother]

Daphne is quite right.

 

I lost a hen to Marek's a few years back, she'd had a bad moult and succumbed to it.

 

It's a type of herpes virus, which lurks 'in the background' in most flocks and many chickens will have had a mild version without any real noticeable ill effects. As Daphne has advised, disinfect everything (Virkon or Viratec are good for this) and allow a 2 week (at least) isolation for the newbies before introducing them.

 

It really is very rare and there is very little that you could have done, so please don't feel at fault. Generally, breeders who experience problems with Marek's will cull, then replace all their breeding stock, so you can imagine that it isn't too popular.

[Jools]

Yes Daphne is right with her advice, so try not to panic about your others as there's no guarantee that they'll succumb anyway.

 

It's sometimes induced by stress, or by a bird being weakened by something else - I lost one of mine a couple of months ago to what I think was Mareks and discovered that she had a low level of Coccidiosis too (though I don't know which came first). All my others are absolutely fine at the moment and I hope yours will be too.

 

Some breeds are prone to it (Silkies, Sebrights to name two), but none are immune. Your breeder may have meant that she "breeds for immunity", which is how a lot of people do it in preferance to the vaccination route. They simply cull any birds with symptoms, then breeding from the survivors creates offspring with resistance to the virus. It's a pretty sensible policy really, though it obviously wouldn't work with commercial hybrid production, which is where vaccines come into their own.

[Ms Marple]

I have watched my other two small ones today in their isolation ward. By this afternoon I came to the realisation that the other poland is not well- in fact she is blind- confirmed by my OH when he arrived home. Some research has shown that blindenss is another symptom of Marek's. The vet also rang back this evening having done some resaearch of her own saying that she thought the most likely route was that it was already present in the original bird and that the stress of approaching pol together with the departure of her cockeral friend and the arrival of two new little ones was a likely trigger. She also thought that possibly the others brought it with them. I am now totally at a loss. I will ring the vet first thing in the morning and get her to take a look but I fear I am about to lose a second lttle one. The breeder is not returning my calls or texts. Perhaps she is concerned over the state of the rest of her flock I just don't know. I would just lke to talk to her. I have segregated the two little ones now also. I am never very good with death human or animal.

 

Edited to add I am also going to try what Egluntyne suggests if a still have a chicken tomorrow morning.

Edited August 17, 2010 by Guest

[Plum]

So sorry, rotten time you are having.

[Ms Marple]

I am starting to think that Ina jinxed where poland are concerned Plum!

[Plum]

No you are jinxed where that breeder is concerned. Can't help feeling you should take them back to her, they are obviously both at risk

It's rough for her of course but that must be part of breeding chickens that the whole flock gets affected. I would have a long think before you keep the two new ones

[Daphne]

Gosh I am sorry. This sounds awful. How is the 2nd poland today? One of the signs when mareks affects the eyes are a cloudy or grey eye and/or irregularly shaped pupils. I don't mean to sound flippant but you're sure she is blind not just having a bad hair day where she can't see properly (one of mine has a huge crest and her vision is a bit impaired)? Assuming the news isn't good, then I would take her to the vet but if its mareks related I'm very afraid you'll need to be prepared for the worst. I wonder (I don't know) if blindness can be caused by other things what with polands having thin skulls and prone to some neurological disorders? I believe some people do keep blind birds assuming they are well in other respects.

 

If it is mareks, regarding the rest of the birds, obviously disinfect again the 'poot house and keep her well away from all other stock. You will just have to wait and see what happens as it can't be disagnosed without symptoms.

 

Regarding the breeder, she is probably in shock/denial. Carry on trying, but if you can't get through and it is mareks I might be tempted to text her and tell her whats happened. If you're able to keep it factual about your birds and the possibility her flock is infected you will have done your duty from a health and welfare perspective. Although thats not much consolation from the personal perspective.

 

Keep in touch, let us know how you get on.

[The Dogmother]

I agree with Daphne.

 

Is this breeder far from you? I'd be tempted to pop over there for a 'level and reasonable discussion', takign to two wee 'uns with you to be returned for a refund. I feel for her, and she obviously needs to get her house in order, but it is down to her, not you.

 

Marek's isn't notifiable, but common sense dictates that she will need to take advice as to what steps she has to take. It is unfortunate that it is a disease that is normally present in most flocks without causing any harm, and usually no symptoms. It can lie dormant in the nerve endings of immune birds fro a long time without causign a problem, so it's probably not down to any negligence on her part.

 

I really hope that you can get this sorted to your satisfaction.

[Ms Marple]

Hello again. Feeling a lot more positive. My second little poland is still with us. We are still convinced that she is blind but now that she has found her way around the eglu and run she seems happier and is eating and drinking- although at times she can make a longwinded affair of both as she seems to 'miss' frequently. She is chattering lots and seems to listen out for the sablepoot who is very chatty and follow the sounds that she makes. In fact the sablepoot seems like a 'guide' chicken.

 

Does anyone else have experience of a blind chicken?? I know you may say it is because of her limited vision due to the pom pom, but honestly you get no reponse from her eyes when you try and stimulate a reaction and also to watch her - she stumbles around the place and headbuts the food and water! She blinks and the eye shape looks ok etc.