dislaney Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 Wonder if anyone can give me some advice on a recent development with one of my Columbines called Claire , please! Apologies in advance for the short story that follows ... We have had 4 hybrid hens ( 2 x Columbine, 1 x Black Star, 1 x Bluebelle) for about 2 months, and up until this week haven't had any major behavioural problems with them. Angela the Bluebelle is the lead hen, and very calmly asserts her authority to keep the others in check, without any apparent signs of major bullying. Susann the Black Star is very perky and assertive, but again doesn't appear to boss the two younger Columbines around unduly. Susann is the super friendly hen from previous postings btw ... Claire came into lay about 3 weeks ago and has been a steady deliverer of petite green eggs , almost one every day. And while she seemed a little less confident than the others, and apparently bottom of the pecking order, she has still been friendly and interested in everything. She has a big, floppy red comb, much bigger than all the other hens. The other Columbine Avril is a bit of a drama queen, rushing around everywhere and making a big noise, having not yet laid any eggs. While I'm out at work an eggxpert eggxperienced hen-keeping neighbour comes around to look after my girls and put them safely back in the Eglu pen before dusk, so they can then take themselves to bed. On Wednesday this week, I got home and did the usual closing of the pophole, and busied myself tidying up the secure outer pen, with a little miner's lamp on my woolly hat to see in the dark. I suddenly spotted the forlorn figure of Claire staggering around under the Eglu Cube , looking disoriented and obviously not inside the Eglu where she was supposed to be! She seemed very disturbed by the light on my hat, twisting her neck at a strange angle, although I managed to pick her up and put her in the Eglu without any trouble. I thought that this was a one-off mishap (perhaps she got cosy at the back of the Eglu and fell asleep) but every night since then she has settled down under the Eglu rather than joining the others up the ladder. She didn't look well at all on Thursday (neck quite twisted) although she was eating, drinking and laying normally, and quite active around the pen. Yesterday she looked a little better, but same nocturnal habit and neck slightly twisted to one side. My neighbour gave her a thorough inspection (crop, throat etc.) but couldn't find anything obviously wrong. Today Claire still looks the same, and has laid an egg as normal. So am I worrying without cause? Is this a behavioural issue or might she have a health problem? Is she a victim of bullying or delayed stress reaction from Bonfire Night? Could the slight neck twist be anything to do with her oversize comb, which seems to have grown very rapidly in the past two weeks? Will she ever go up to bed on her own again??? All advice gratefully received in relation to any or all questions - thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve the Gas Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 I would guess its a muscle or nerve problem and may pass, if not she may just be fine with it. I would put her to roost for a few nights to get her back in a routine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plum Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 There's been quite a lot of discussion about this sort of condition on the forums and I think vitamin deficiency is one of the causes but found this thread for you which puts loads of information together. A good tonic is lifeguard. http://dlhunicorn.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=emergencies&action=display&num=1160928615 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dislaney Posted November 13, 2010 Author Share Posted November 13, 2010 Thanks for the links, Plum - I'm wondering if she has an ear problem, as she has been scratching one side of her head quite a lot? She's been thoroughly deloused so it's almost certainly not that sort of a problem. Have just had to pick her up to put her in the Eglu to roost as she was making lots of noise and obviously wanting to get up there, but didn't even attempt the ladder, just dashed around under it. She went straight in the nest box to settle down. Her head is slightly on one side, not all the time, but when she's trying to look at something or make a move on something. Eating - both from hand and the floor - is fine. Quite worried now, actually .... Will top up the feed with poultry spice tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plum Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 Agree sounds like ear infection or they can get parasites in the ear. A vet will be able to tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlottechicken Posted November 14, 2010 Share Posted November 14, 2010 If she is bottom of the pecking order she may be bullied by the others as she goes into bed. My bantams wait until it is a little darker before they venture inside so the big girls can't see them. She may not be able to see her way to bed once she has waited for the others to quieten down, when she thinks it is safe, so has to roost outside. I've noticed that when hens can't see properly, their necks get distorted and they make all sorts of funny head movements in the dark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dislaney Posted November 14, 2010 Author Share Posted November 14, 2010 You might be right Charlottechicken, because Claire seems a lot better today (comb not so floppy, more energetic, still eating fine) although she laid her egg outside the Eglu on the pen floor! When it came to bedtime, she seemed quite keen to go up the ladder then kept bottling it at the last minute so again I gave her a helping hand. She froze and crouched inside, then there was a lot of noise so I peeked through the roof to see what was going on and saw that lead hen Angela was giving Claire a good thumping before everything settled down. The other 3 seem to huddle together and Claire is left slightly to one side on her own. The twisty neck thing also seems not so bad today, although when the thumping was happening she did get all twisted and sideways again, looking up at me helplessly through the gap in the top of the Eglu ..... Any tips for moderating the bullying would be helpful. Or do I add a couple of bantams to share some of the flak??! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dislaney Posted November 15, 2010 Author Share Posted November 15, 2010 Update: it looks very much as if the problem is related to bullying. Poor Claire is being consistently battered by Angela when she tries to get in the Eglu to roost or lay - my eggxpert neighbour saw this first hand tonight and she said we needed to take swift action as Claire's head was nearly bent double, back towards her tail feathers in an effort to escape the beating. So - Claire is spending tonight in a cat travel box inside our (warm and cosy) outdoor changing room facility, safely away from the rest of the clan. We plan to reintroduce her into the pen in the morning for feed and exercise as normal, as there doesn't seem to be a problem when they're all out and about, just when they're in the Eglu to roost or lay. Angela and Claire will feed happily side by side from my hand without any fisticuffs. We'll keep an eye on things tomorrow and if all looks OK, do the same again with the cat box tomorow night. My neighbour has suggested getting a second Eglu (Classic ) to become Claire's permanent roost spot, so that she can feel safe and get a bit of time on her own. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Happy to spend the money if we can make it work by keeping them all together, rather than having to rehome either Claire or Angela. Although we know someone who would be happy to have one of them, I'm too attached to give up without trying other options! Another suggestion was to get a couple of additional hens as there is plenty of room in the Cube , and it would take the attention away from Claire - again, any views on this would be great Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Chick Posted November 16, 2010 Share Posted November 16, 2010 This is a tricky question, and one which does pop up occasionally. By separating Claire I would say that you are not helping her. If you are able to get some temporary accommodation, I would say you would be better off separating Angela for a few days (as the other 2 are not picking on Claire) this will knock Angela back down the pecking order a bit. You could get new hens, but then would need to deal with the inevitable introductions which would also require separation, another consideration is if your run space is sufficient for more hens (not sure of your set up but if you have the standard cube run, I wouldn't have more than 4 in it) I have in the past got a bullied hen some new buddies, and re-introduced her successfully with her new friends, but I did this from a large WIR set up, with a separate introduction wing. I hope this helps, and good luck. I hope Claire will be feeling more confident soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dislaney Posted November 17, 2010 Author Share Posted November 17, 2010 Hi Spacechick - unfortunately it looks as though Avril has picked up some bad habits from Angela, and is also bullying Claire, who now races to get past her with her head on one side when it looks as though Avril is revving up for violence. The other hen Susann seems kindly disposed towards Claire though, and gives Avril a bashing in turn when she oversteps the mark. The pecking order seems to be Angela > Susann > Avril > Claire. We've continued night time separation for now and Claire seems generally happier, eating well and socialising with the others although she has stopped laying. The Eglu Classic arrives Friday so will give that a go and see if we need to separate either Claire or Angela, although with Avril now joining in the fray it does look as though we need to keep Claire on her own for the time being. No point taking one bully out of the mix if there's another one waiting to pounce! Our set up here is an Eglu Cube plus 2m run, which they spend a couple of hours in in the morning to load up with pellets, then get let out to free range for the rest of the day in a safely enclosed corner of our garden which is mulched and planted for happy digging and scratching. My neighbour reckons we could add another 2 hens without any problem for ranging space - it's an interesting shaped corner, with plenty of room to hide and scratch around plants and trees without bumping into another hen. The cube could definitely cope with 2 more, as there is loads of space inside when they're all in to roost together. I guess we need to take it one day at a time and see how things pan out over the weekend with the additional Eglu?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enpekt Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 I'm no expert, but I would use a water pistol to let the bully know she's being naughty. And use the eglu as a sin-bin, rather than making the situation worse for Claire. My theory being that an isolated girl will lose her authority and should play by your rules on her return. Let her see she's being excluded from treats, too. I'm sure all these ideas have come from this forum, so apologies in advance... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella14 Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 (edited) I'm no expert, but I would use a water pistol to let the bully know she's being naughty. And use the eglu as a sin-bin, rather than making the situation worse for Claire. My theory being that an isolated girl will lose her authority and should play by your rules on her return. Let her see she's being excluded from treats, too. I'm sure all these ideas have come from this forum, so apologies in advance... Forgive me because I am completely new to chickens, but not to other animals. I wouldn't have thought this sort of intervention would work. It can do with dogs if they live in the house, as they see the human as a member of the pack and you can place yourself as the top dog. In canines if a weak pack member is favored in some way by the top animal, it affords them a kind of status by association. If the favour slips though, watch out! My only experience of social, outside living animals, is horses, but I have noticed some similarities between equine and chicken social behaviours! I would have thought that manipulation with punishment (e.g. water pistol) and treats (deprevention for dominant behavior) would delay the 'negotiations' rather than settle things down. As I said though, I'm new to chickens and look forward to reading the views of those more experienced. Edited November 17, 2010 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megalin Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 Hmmmm. I think punishment and deprivation aren't things that chickens understand! I think that may bring on undue stress and could even make it worse I don't know.... However as enpekt and space chick says, isolating a chicken that is being a bully may make her lose her place in the pecking order so putting her in a separate run for a few weeks may help....* good luck, it's tricky to know what's going on with them! Megalin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plum Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 The use of a water pistol isn't punishment but it can bring a chicken down from attack mode as a short shock and as you say establish you at top of pecking order. I've found that if they are in the habit of always attacking it can stop that behaviour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Chick Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 I agree with Plum that a water pistol stops negative chicken behaviour in its tracks, and I frequently use this technique during early combined free ranging sessions when doing introductions. However, you need to be there to stop the negative behaviour. As another chicken is now bullying Claire, your situation is trickier. However, you have said you have the classic coming. I think you need to mix things up a little bit to confuse them. I would suggest that Claire NEEDS to stay in the cube, it's the "main territory" and so needs to be viewed as HERS. Therefore, I would put the 2 bullies in the classic, and leave Claire with the girl that can be trusted in the cube. Leave it like that for a few days. Then put the better of the 2 bullies in with Claire and the other girl and leave the worst bully on her own for a few days more, then re-introduce her. I would also limit the bullies free ranging time. These kind of "divide and conquer" approaches tend to work well Good luck with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dislaney Posted November 17, 2010 Author Share Posted November 17, 2010 I like the 'divide and conquer' strategy, Space Chick - thanks! Will give it a go when the Classic arrives. Meanwhile, this evening Claire got into the cat box very happily on her own, and snuggled down for the night without any encouragement from me! Head in the upright position and contented noises coming from the box. So as a temporary fix this seems to be doing OK - and Claire is always in the main Eglu run first thing in the morning before the others are let out, so they come down into 'her territory'. Will keep you posted! Thanks to everyone for their support and encouragement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enpekt Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Perhaps my approach was a bit harsh, but then I'm a bloke. SpaceChick put the approach better, and probably closer to what I would have been allowed to do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella14 Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 The use of a water pistol isn't punishment but it can bring a chicken down from attack mode as a short shock and as you say establish you at top of pecking order. I've found that if they are in the habit of always attacking it can stop that behaviour. Sorry, I was meaning 'punishment' in the technical sense. Anything that feels unpleasant and is set to follow a behaviour is technically punishment. But I get that it isn't used with the intention to punish in an punitive way, but just to modify the the behaviour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dislaney Posted November 23, 2010 Author Share Posted November 23, 2010 Just a quick update, a week on: the Classic arrived last Friday, and Claire went straight into it on her own, no problem. She looked almost immediately better on Saturday (head less bent, more confident in demeanour), and mingled happily with the others during the day to feed and scratch about. She went straight to bed in her new apartment for the next couple of nights, and then last night was torn between settling in the Cube or the Classic at bedtime. All the while growing more confident and upright in her bearing, the last signs of neck problem well and truly gone yesterday. A little bit of bossiness from Angela, but nothing like the outright violence of before. The really great news is that Claire is now laying again - in the Cube! hurrah! - and tonight she went off to bed in the Cube, settling herself down with the others with no scuffling. What a transformation in 10 days! Fingers crossed the peace continues - at least we have the spare apartment if it kicks off again though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plum Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 Wonderful news. So glad she's better and settled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dislaney Posted November 24, 2010 Author Share Posted November 24, 2010 Thanks Plum - your advice and support much appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerlady Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 Bless her..so glad she is getting on better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
