Smart Door Power Options

[Angela & Ken]

Hi all. My appenzeller, Dotty, is around 8 months old. She's not started laying yet. A few days ago I noticed she was very skinny (awful) and had lost weight (she rarely lets us pick her up). Yesterday she was huddled and limping when she did walk (on one side of body, not both legs). When she walked slowly, no limp, only when she speeded up.

 

We've brought her inside to keep her warm and segregate her. Her wattle is red, so is the flesh around her eyes (can't see a comb as she has a feathered head). She's not moving much now, not eating, although she pecked at her layers pellets this morning for a while. She rarely poos but when she does they are small and have the usual white coating on.

 

I wormed all the girls (9 of them) about 2 or 3 months ago with Flubenvet. No other hen seems to be displaying signs of illness either.

 

I've felt for an egg but can't feel one stuck.

 

Her breast bone is shockingly protruding. Her crop isn't full or hard. There is no discharge from her nose or mouth. I've checked her legs for breakage but they seem fine. No scaly leg, no bumble foot. All the girls get regularly de-iced and we did her only last week. Regular cleaning of the eglu and de-icing of it too.

 

I've now given her Coxoid via a syringe, incase it's coccsidiosis as she is very young and it may be that - although we did disinfect the ground with Biooyst before these new girls arrived last November. I've made an appointment to go to the vet later today for antibiotics (the vet isn't an avian specialist so I probably am more experienced with hens then he is!)

 

I think I'm missing something though. I'm not convinced it's coccsidiosis - she's not pale nor has diarrhea.

 

Any suggestions or thoughts, I'd be very grateful to you all. Many thanks. Very worried. She's gorgeous and I love hens.

[Egluntyne]

If she has been like this for a few days, and is emaciated, she needs to be seen by a vet.

[miller30]

Have you checked inside her mouth i only say this as my orp went down hill fast couldnt find anything wrong until i opened her mouth and found a tumour growing across the roof of her mouth that had colapsed her throat so she couldnt eat she was culled straight away leanne

[Angela & Ken]

Thanks Egluntyne - as I've said, we have an appointment this afternoon.

 

Thanks for your message re the possible tumour - very helpful. We did look inside her mouth when we administered the coxoid but didn't see anything. I will have another look though.

 

I watched her a few minutes ago. She is mainly just standing in the open ended box I put her in but did come out to see what was for lunch.....she wants to eat but doesn't do so, keeps going to eat but doesn't.

 

Her wings are droopy, almost like she has no energy and she's actually dragging her foot a little. Not a happy hen. So upset for her.

[Angela & Ken]

Meant to say - she's been eating well until the last 2 days, so I cannot understand the weight loss.

[suebee]

The weight loss, and the limping sound like Mareks. How did you get on at the vets?

[mimi5]

How did it go?? It sounds like Marek's to me too

[Angela & Ken]

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply and care. Dotty is still very unwell. I cancelled the vet as I too did some research and agree - it's Marek's (although we cannot be sure until an autopsy is done, which we may not do as I can't see the benefit.)

 

I called the Vet and explained my findings - they seemed lost as they have no experience of hens or birds, so we both agreed that there was little point in the Vet treating her and my husband and I would take care of it. We gave her one more day, as she doesn't seem to be in pain but weak and not eating. She's warm and safe in our bathroom. My husband is coming home to take care of her this afternoon and put her to sleep if she doesnt make a miraculous recovery before 4pm. I am besides myself. I had awful nightmares last night as I am so fond of her, although the anxiety now is from knowing Marek's will almost certainly affect my other 8 lovely hens. Our little bantam Dolly is limping slightly. I can't bear it.

 

Poor hens. They are so fragile. When ever someone asks me about keeping hens and would I recommend it, I always say "they are very fragile, need a lot of attention, often get sick without any warning and sometimes die, but they are gorgeous and you have to be dedicated to them."

 

Thanks again. I will update you later on.

[loumabel]

I am so sorry to hear this, it is so upsetting when your chooks are poorly. If you do have to put her to sleep I would think about having a post mortem, it does give you the knowledge of what the problem was and could help your remaining girls. Her symptoms sound very similar to how two of my pekins died and they had avian TB which I discovered on a PM and it meant that I could watch my other hens for signs that I had previously missed. I still have three birds left from that flock over a year later and with a lot of TLC they are happy and healthy at the moment. Good luck and I hope your girlie improves xx

[Angela & Ken]

Thank you, Loumabel. It's a good idea, isn't it. My vet (in London) isn't an avian specialist - would I have to use one and where might I find one? It would be wise, so I know what to look forward.

 

Sorry to hear about your girls too and glad the others are ok.

 

I've just been to see her and she's talking to me, has eaten and is now laying down - the first time in 2 days that I know of. So sad. If it's Avian flu.....is there a cure?

[Egluntyne]

Your vet doesn't need to be an avian specialist. This poor hen sounds as if she needs urgent attention of one sort or another, and they rarely get better of their own accord when they are as frail as you indicate that this hen is.

 

I would make another appointment, or cull her immediately, out of kindness, if she were mine.

[mimi5]

Oh poor you and little Dotty, sending you a hug It sounds like end game so sad to say goodbye

 

they are very fragile, need a lot of attention, often get sick without any warning and sometimes die, but they are gorgeous and you have to be dedicated to them."

 

I read this comment and it struck a cord with me. I have been keeping bantams for just over 18months and have lost 5 in that time all to different things and now have Marek's hanging over the rest I'm not sure if chiken keeping is for me and I've decided not to add to my flock for now.

 

I hope you get over this!!! Maybe a PM would be a good idea?

[Angela & Ken]

Thank you all.

 

Dotty has perked up a little. She's pecked my finger, hard! She's eating, although not ravenous. She's better but I'm aware of how temporary that can be. We may put her to sleep tomorrow morning if she's no better or worse - we were going to do that at 4pm but she's better. I don't think she's in pain at all. I've talked to the vet and will call them again tomorrow.

 

Thanks.

[loumabel]

only you can know if its the right time to PTS or not, and I think you will know in your gut what is the right thing to do. It is so hard to make the decision to cull and I don't think it ever gets easier but you can be happy with yourself that you have done all that is possible for her. If she sadly does'nt make it, I would get the PM done, I think any vet could do it and they wouldn't have to be an avian specialist and at least you would know what you were dealing with then. My girls had Avian Tuberculosis and sadly its not curable and i had to have them PTS, but I watch my remaining girls like a hawk and constantly monitor them for any signs of the illness. I also keep them constantly dosed up on Lifeguard tonic and handle them often to check their weight, and I keep them totally seperate from my ex batts so as not to pass the disease on to them. If I had'nt had the Pm I would'nt have know to do all of this, as I said in my previous post, Its a year since my pekins died and fingers crossed my remaining three bantams are doing ok. I have found Bantams to be fairly delicate and it seems that other people have had problems too, but they are funny, quirky little girls that make up for all the trouble they cause us!!! Please do keep us posted on her progress and sending hugs to you xx

[Egghead68]

Chris Hall is an avian vet in London. Else I think there may be some in Slough or Windsor. There is a list on the forum.

[Egghead68]

Chicken-friendly vets:

 

http://club.omlet.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=4447

[Angela & Ken]

Thanks so much, Loumabel. Well, we were all set to put her to sleep last night and today but she's perked up considerably. The limp is less too. Very strange. She's talking almost non-stop and she's eating much more. She's pooing much more too (the poo is green with white, not a good sign).

 

We have this mantra in our minds when we have a sick hen (which, touch wood, isn't often) "are we prolonging a life or prolonging a death" and yesterday I wasn't sure. Today we are sure we may be prolonging a life. Hopefully. She is still terribly thin. Her tail is up now, more often than not.

 

I really don't know. It doesn't feel right yet to PTS, as you've said - it's a gut feeling and we've had 2 hens who died an awful death years ago and we vowed we'd never let that happen again, so if she dips again, that's it.

 

The autopsy is a really good idea and wise, should she not make it. Dread to think of the cost - this is London and it's a license to print money, me thinks!

 

I picked almost all the other girls up today, to check their weight. They were fine. I couldn't catch 3 of them! Dotty was the one hen who just wouldn't let us pick her up.....which is so sad, as we may have noticed her weight loss if she'd been one of the other darlings. That's an Appenzeller for you!

 

Thanks again. Say a pray. x

[Angela & Ken]

Thank you, Egghead68!

 

Chris Hall vet was the vet company we used when we spent over £1,000 on our sick hen a few years back. I found them very expensive and really, we should have been told "this isn't going to get any better" but we were new to hen-keeping so didn't know and loved our little hen.

 

Thanks anyway, and I've got the link now, so will have a look.

[loumabel]

Oh that is encouraging news!! I hope she keeps improving Ive got everything crossed for little dotty, please do let us know how she gets on. I just had a thought, have you tried some critical care food mixed with something she loves to eat, it might help to build her up, I have used it on some of my poorlies and it has helped a lot. x

[Angela & Ken]

Thanks Loumable. What is critical food care please? I have a huge cupboard with lots of magic potions in (well, vitamins, Flubenvet, Coxoid, Omega oils, etc, etc) but I don't know what critical food care is.

 

She isn't well today. Bad news I think. Husband coming home shortly.

 

Many thanks.

[miller30]

Hi Angela sorry to hear about your poorly chicken but by the sound of it i think its time you let her go i know its hard i have to cull my chickens myself as my husband wont do it leanne

[loumabel]

oh Angela, I am so sorry to hear that, it does sound like you have reached the end of the road It is so hard to say goodbye to them when you have nursed them for days, its the thing that everyone hates most about chicken keeping. Take comfort in knowing you did all you could for her and gave her a happy life. Take Care x

 

Ps. Critical Care formula is a kind of powdered food mixture that you mix with water to make a paste, It is good for poorlies and gives them a boost when they are not eating very much. If you google it you can find it online, I got mine on ebay. It is a good thing to have in your box of goodies!

[Angela & Ken]

Thanks so much Miller30 and Loumabel.

 

Poor Dotty....my husband put her out of her misery this evening. We are terribly upset. I don't think I did all I could for her.....I am feeling really terrible that I didn't take her to the vet, although in my heart I know we wouldn't be anywhere different right now. I would like to have got an autopsy but it's Bank Holiday (typical). I think it was either Marek's or TB, having read all I can on it. I am now waiting in horrid anticipation that my lovely hens will all go the same way.

 

We have an "Ooops, word censored!"nal of medications but I've now ordered a fair few more products (nutridrops and Critical Care amongst them.) Not that I feel any of these would have made any difference to Dotty.

 

She was eating dried mealworms like no tomorrow late this afternoon but the weight loss was horrific and she was so weak and tired.

 

If I lose the 8 hens we have left, I won't ever keep hens again. We've been keeping hens for 7 or 8 years now, mostly in 2s or 3s and have had a few loses over the years, but not like this. It's all been egg peritonitis (awful), lazy crop (equally awful) and coccsidiosis (we think from the breeder, as the hen was so young).

 

Loumable - I read about your loses, so sorry, and I noticed it was TB with your girls. Did you lose them all? So sorry.

 

Thanks again all.

[Egghead68]

So sorry to hear this.

[loumabel]

so sorry to hear this. You did the right and kindest thing and you did do the best you could for her. I am sure there is nothing a vet could have done for her. Please don't beat yourself up about it.

I know this is a horrible thought but could you not pop her in the freezer over the weekend and get the PM done after Easter I think it may make you feel better, it is awful having the unknown hanging over your head.

I still have three of my bantam girls left, so please don't give up on your flock just yet. As you have been chicken keeping for so long and enjoyed it up until now it would be a shame to give it all up. It is probably just a blip and things will improve soon. Everyone seems to go through some lows, when everything seems to go wrong and then it all turns around and you get a year with no problems!

Keep your chin up and have a nice Easter X