chickenlicken85 Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Hi, I have cider vineager and vermex, vermex says to use it everyday and cider vineager to use twice a week, however different people have been telling me different things. the guy i bought them off said do one week vermx and then one week cider vineager alternate and then someone else said just give cider vineager for one week in 4 and im all confused Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucknette Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Hi I use apple cider vinigar for a week once a month and vermex for three days once a month. I use a poultry tonic for the two weeks in between (when I remember) One week acv One week three days vermex four days fresh water Two weeks poultry tonic It's all confusing to start with but you will get into a routine. You can do the weeks in any order you want to, a lot of it for me is when I remember as none of its written in stone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoachedPlease Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 I don't do any of them! For the last year I have never used a single chicken product, DE or avc. They all sound too much like homeopathy, with no scientific papers to support. If anyone has seen a scientific paper I would love to read it. Meanwhile my girls are looking fine, even my chicks! I feel like a lone voice in a world of alternative remedy tonics! Xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chortle Chook Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 I used Vermex when I first got my chickens and I can't say that it made any difference at all. They still needed their 6 monthly worming. The apple cider vinegar, however, I think is brill for when chickens are moulting or getting new feathers. I used it for 1 week per month throughout the late summer / autumn last year, for just that purpose and will be doing so again as they seemed a bit down / off colour till I did that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 I feel like a lone voice in a world of alternative remedy tonics! You're not alone! I know some people swear by these products, but I don't give my hens any additives (apart from worming with Flubenvet) and they are healthy and happy as far as I can tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoachedPlease Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Yeah Olly. I have no doubt the chicken magazines promote all these unnecessary products as they are paid to advertise and the remedies take up pages and pages, all claiming to be important. They can be quite persuasive and make you feel guilty ou are not being a good owner. As long as you give your chickens a decent feed, there's no reason to tinker with the poor chickens 'acidity' levels or to assume they are vitamin deficient in their natural state! ....rant over Xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Some like to add bits and pieces to the feed, others don't bother, it really depends on how you feel about it. Apple Cider Vinegar is known as an all round conditioner, especially for the gut, it is used to treat sour crop, and my poultry vet recommends it for that. Find a path which suits you and your hens, but do remember to worm with Flubenvet every quarter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken deficient Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 I don't do any of them! For the last year I have never used a single chicken product, DE or avc. They all sound too much like homeopathy, with no scientific papers to support. If anyone has seen a scientific paper I would love to read it. Meanwhile my girls are looking fine, even my chicks! I feel like a lone voice in a world of alternative remedy tonics! Xx I prefer to do things as naturally as possible. I think there are a lot of 'old remedies' about that work really well, but don't get much publicity as they don't make anyone, (read multinational drug companies), much money. For similar reasons, scientific papers on these remedies will also be scarce. Many of the marketed drugs are actually based on plant active ingredients - i.e. contain synthetic copies of naturally occurring substances. I did find a paper about mite treatments including DE and sulphur powder that I referred to in this thread. It showed that sulphur powder was 100% effective at controlling Northern Fowl Mite in all the chickens in the studied group, even if just added to a dust bath that not all the chickens used. Interestingly, sulphur is apparently lethal to all blood sucking / vampirous parasites. Even more interestingly, the 'active ingredient' in garlic is allicin...which is a sulphur containing compound...so, the old saying about wearing garlands of garlic to ward of vampires probably could be scientifically proven if someone could find enough vampires for a proper trial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chortle Chook Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I did find a paper about mite treatments including DE and sulphur powder that I referred to in this thread. It showed that sulphur powder was 100% effective at controlling Northern Fowl Mite in all the chickens in the studied group, even if just added to a dust bath that not all the chickens used. Interestingly, sulphur is apparently lethal to all blood sucking / vampirous parasites. Even more interestingly, the 'active ingredient' in garlic is allicin...which is a sulphur containing compound...so, the old saying about wearing garlands of garlic to ward of vampires probably could be scientifically proven if someone could find enough vampires for a proper trial. That was totally fascinating, chicken deficient As an aside, people often forget that drugs provided by the multinational companies do also have 'natural' ingredients As a further aside, I don't think my dogs need worry about blood sucking critters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoachedPlease Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I liked that thread on sulphur chick def. I do use garlic in the water. The body does excrete it out through the skin, so it makes sense that lice etc aren't going to like it. No red mite so far fingers crossed. does that count as a tonic? I don't go with the whole anti big pharma stance, as health shops and chicken tonic suppliers all make a very healthy profit singing their tune too. ..besides I want to spend my hard earned money on..more chickens!! Xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken deficient Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I don't go with the whole anti big pharma stance, as health shops and chicken tonic suppliers all make a very healthy profit singing their tune too. I am sure they do make a big profit on the things they sell, but probably not enough to conduct trials like they do for new drugs, to prove efficacy, dosage, side effects etc. The trials are hugely expensive if done properly,(drug trials can cost millions), so tend to be done on new drugs that can be licensed as prescription only and so command much higher prices. Remedies that are readily available at lower costs will therefore often have no claims on their labels about efficacy or even sometimes their intended use, as the trials enabling them to do so have not been done. It makes it more difficult to figure out what really works and what doesn't, but I think there is often something to it when a remedy has been used and recommended for centuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoachedPlease Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 It makes it more difficult to figure out what really works and what doesn't, but I think there is often something to it when a remedy has been used and recommended for centuries. I think 'remedy' is the key word. If your chicken is ill and needs a remedy then its time to think about traditional cures, but these tonics such as the original poster mentioned, seem to be about supplying 'medication' to healthy chickens just for the sake of it. And I must add wormers to that. There are plenty of articles discussing wether to wait until the chicken gets worms before treating it. Same as with my cat. I have seen no sign in years of worms for any of my pets, furry or feathered, so think of all the medication I have saved them from. Very natural! Xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucknette Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Oh dear Well I set off a bit of a discussion by typing the words poultry tonic. I in no way 'medicate' my birds unless absolutely necessary and I rarely have. All natural here. The tonic I use which I didnt name was recommended on here by a lovely lady who also does chicken parties. (Not sure if she still does as this was a long time ago) It can be used every day is completely natural and the birds love it but as I said they get it when I remember and they look good after a having it. No big money pharmas used by me. I was just trying to help show Chickenlicken what sort of routine can be done as its a bit daunting when you first start out. The lovely Eglutine was a font of knowledge for me. Thanks Eglutine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
