Solitary chicken - need advice

[Pottage]

OMG, they seem to have no end of problems recently and I fear they're little systems are being overloaded now. I've noticed tonight the tips of their feathers on their necks and backs all look like they are being chewed, I don't know if this is mice getting in the coop at night or depluming mite.

 

Here's what they are all on

 

Pecky - She had a 3 squirts of Johnson's anti mite spray on her legs at the weekend for scaly leg. She is having about 1/4 of a teaspoon of Flubenvet twice a day for tape worm, since Sunday. This is mixed in sweetcorn as all the girls do not currently have worms so I can't put it in their feed. I only wormed her using grapes dipped in flubenvet (4 halves a day at the same time) a week ago but this didn't touch the worms, she obviously wasn't having enough. She has had 4 drops of ivermectin this evening for mite (it's 3 months since they were last treated with this).

 

Steve - Also 1/4 of a teaspoon Flubenvet twice a day mixed in corn for tape worm, since Saturday. 4 drops of Ivermectin this evening.

 

Nugget - She's going in for an implant tomorrow as she's had egg laying issues. She has been on .4ml of Baytril since last Thursday, twice a day as she has a slightly red belly, vent and tail. She also has .4ml Metacam when she looks poorly with a stuck egg. 3 squirts of Johnson's anti mite spray for scaly leg.

 

Lola - I can't even remember how long she's been on some sort of drug or another, but most recently antibiotics for e. coli and tonight 4 drops of Ivermectin. She is also implanted. I stopped her steroids about a week ago as they were making her hot, she was on these to gain weight after the e. coli left her at 1500 grams.

 

I'm really most worried about Pecky and Steve having the Flubenvet and Ivermectin, but I don't want them to be ill. I'm just worried what all these drugs are doing to them inside :-/

[Pottage]

I think I am going to knock the Ivermectin off the list until they have finished the flubenvet (this weekend) and leave it a week. They've only had one dose so far.

[Dolly]

So sorry to hear about your troubles, they can be a worry sometimes!

 

Just wanted to say I have a girl with tapeworms which has been going on for ages, they are a nightmare to get rid of and I haven't managed it yet. However my avian expert vet advised that Flubenvet will not touch tapeworms, you have to use something called Praziquantel which is specifically for tapeworms in cats and dogs and is not licenced for poultry, hence you MUST see a vet for the correct medication, doseage and repeat frequencies. If you search 'tapeworms' on the forum you'll find more details on mine and Claireabella's posts a few months ago, as we both had problems with this.

 

Let us know how you get on and good luck.

[Beantree]

Think your Flubenvet dosage is miles too high anyway Pottage. A 6g scoop of the 1% Flubenzol mix is sufficient for 14 days. As said, Flubenvet apparently won't treat tapeworm, although I must add that 4 years ago it worked for us. I would expect them all to be treated though.

 

I'm staggered with all this medication. But, by the sounds of it, all necessary. Metacam is an anti-inflammatory and I don't like using it since we had a cockerel die suddenly after a course of treatment for a leg injury. Perhaps co-incidence?

[Egluntyne]

Wow. Is your vet supervising the administration of all these hard core meds?

 

I agree that you are massively over treating them, with many items that are not licensed for use on poultry in the UK.

[Pottage]

I'm not overly concerned about stuff not being licensed for poultry. My Dad (who also has chickens) was high up at DEFRA until his recent retirement and has privately said these sorts of things are not licensed because it costs a supplier a fortune to do through the hoops required to be licensed for each different type of bird and as backyard chickens are not a massive industry it is not worth their while to do so. Large scale farms are not interested in implanting their girls or if they have mites. Much of what both of our vets prescribe is unlicensed for poultry.

 

It is a massive list of drugs, I sometimes think if I were to shake Lola she'd rattle like a pill bottle :-/ Our vets are aware of what the ladies are on (they've prescribed them all), aside from the scaly leg spray which I’ve now stopped. We’ve two different vets at the moment. Our local one who is good for general chook issues and implants etc, and a fantastic chicken vet but we have to drive an hour and a half to see him so he's saved for emergencies only.

 

I'm going to keep Pecky an Steve on the Flubenvet as their last dose is tomorrow, but I will lower the amount they have a bit. The instructions say one scoop per two kilos of food, which is roughly what they have been having - we estimate each girl gets through between 400 and 500 grams of food a day. I don't really want to do the other two girls because they don't currently have worms (poo samples were tested a week ago) and they are already on so much.

 

I don't know if we've been really unlucky with our girls or what. I know commercials are poorly looked after, but these in particular have seemed to come to us riddled with all manner of nasties :-/

[gavclojak]

It's actually a fallacy that commercial hens are poorly looked after. They are fed the correct feed, have access to clean water, they are vaccinated and wormed and are kept at a constant temperature, it's true they are unfit when they come out of the commercial units and generally disorientated for a while.

It really isn't in the farmers interest to have unhealthy hens so they generally do there best to look after them. Ok I agree they don't indulge them and they don't have the freedom or life they so rightly deserve but that is the commercial system for you

 

I have rehomed several thousand hens now and only seen one obvious EP...a few prolapses and the odd dead hen.

 

That said you seem to have so ridiculously unlucky, tapeworm is really not common in chooks

[Egluntyne]

The issue about licensing means that there is great uncertainty about the suitability of the eggs for human consumption after dosing the hens with something that has not been tested. We have to point it out on the forum as Omlet will not accept responsibility if people come a cropper after eating eggs with a question mark hanging over them. Probably best if you don't sell them or give them away.

[Pottage]

They came to us with tapeworm & roundworm, were riddled with lice and really, really skinny - they are ex barns rather than batts and apparently lived on an inches deep carpet of poo Lola has also recently been terribly ill eith e. coli, which as far as I know commercials are supposed to be innoculated against. Maybe it was just a very bad farm, or maybe we've just been very unlucky. I keep wondering what they are going to come down with next.

 

We treated for the tapeworm when they first arrived with Marriages pellets (they were kept in jail the whole time) which *seemed* to work, there was no visable evidence of those horribal crawling snowmen looking things in their poo for weeks. There were no signs for about 5 weeks, then they reappeared in two of the girls so I treated with grapes dipped in Flubenvet. The other two have had fecal tests and they are clear of all parasites (amazingly). A week and a half after the grapes those disgusting white segments were back in their poo :-/

 

Lola is off to see the really good chicken vet I mentioned next Tuesday with a view to finally stopping her medication, so I will ask him again about the tape worm. I mentioned they had it when we last saw him 2 1/2 weeks ago and he recomended the Flubenvet powder, at a higher dose, should do the trick. I've not seen any segments so far today, but that doesnt really mean anything. If they appear again I guess I'll have to ask for something stronger I absolutly hate pumping all these chemicals into them.

[Pottage]

Thanks Egluntyne, I understand you have a responsibility.

 

I rarely give their eggs away anyway, they go through so much to produce them I don't think people realise how precious they are. They are mine and husbands, or they go back to the girls if they are really well behaved

 

We only have two laying viable eggs at the moment anyway, and I'm withdrawing those even for us until at least a week after they have finished the Flubenvet. Nugget is just laying softies that get gobbled up in seconds (she's getting an implant later today) and Lola is already implanted.

 

My statement about the unlicensed thing was flawed, with hindsight. I was talking about things like the insecticide, but of course forgot the antibiotics. I overlooked those as the girls I have that are on antibiotics don’t lay. I recall being told by my vet that if a hen has Baytril you should never eat her eggs again as Baytril is very similar to what humans are given for food poisoning, and the body builds up a resistance quite quickly. I was surprised to be told this.

[gavclojak]

Gosh you have been monumentally unlucky....was the rehoming done through BHWT.? I have done several barn rehomings and have never seen anything like that before.....the reason I ask is if it was through BHWT I would call then at hen central and discus it with them.

 

They are lucky girls in that you are doing so much to keep them healthy x

[Pottage]

No, we got them from a small local rescue, Free at Last. I mentioned the fact they were riddled with parasites to the lady that runs it when we first started treating them and she said this was what they are usually like due to the poor conditions they are kept in

 

I love my girls to bits, they are my fluffy little children, but they have costs hundreds of pounds in vets and treatment (we're pushing £700 with just one of them alone) since we have had them I am sure this is not normal.

 

I feel bad for the birds that need homes, but it makes me feel like I don't want to use this rescue again. It's not only the time and cost of constant vets visits and the effect all this is having on the girls either, husband and I are pretty much exhausted from having to give all this medication before we go to work an when we get home. We were saying last night, it would be nice just to have one month with none of them being poorly. I'd even settle for a couple of weeks at the moment to be honest

[gavclojak]

£700.00 hells bells....then reason I asked is BHWT only deal with ethical farmers,I know it sounds like a contradiction but it is true.

I think there are a lot of farmers out there who have cottoned on to the "rescue" label.....and I have a feeling it encouraged bad practice...

 

I know how you feel, and as I say fair play for you for taking them on but that is an unethical farmer who clearly doesn't give a flying hoot about his hens....I have heard of a few BHWT hens that have died within the first few weeks,maybe stress, maybe illness but what you have had with your poor girls is just to shabby for words...

 

 

Another obvious question but are you using a regual ground sanitiser??

[Pottage]

Oh yes! Shortly after I heard the words “e. coli” from the vet treating Lola, there was more Bio Dri in their run than Aubious* ha ha!

 

I had been using it sparingly to this point, maybe once every few weeks. I completely clean all Aubious out of their run and replace it once a month, and clean their coop with Poultry Sheild and replace the Aubious in there weekly.

 

 

*Poetic license. Don’t worry, I didn’t really use more that the stipulated amount on the instructions!

 

 

We will probably use BHWT in future. Husband is so disillusioned with the Barnies he just wants posh birds in future

[Egluntyne]

£700.00 I would urge you to change your vet, who is seeing you as a cash machine and I would not go to the same rescue place. Your experience is very unusual. Go for posh birds. It will be far cheaper and much more enjoyable in the long run.

[Pottage]

Chook in question has been to three different vets, our local one is *very* expensive, I know that but it is close and convienient and has an avian vet who is OK. The second vet wanted to put her to sleep The third vet, who I believe Dogmother speaks highly of, is an hour and a half drive away but he is brilliant and so far it seems he has pretty much fixed Lola.

 

Local vet charges £40 a pop for a consultation (she's had 3 there), then there was £160 odd for the implant + GA, and the pots and pots of (useless) Baytril and Metacam she had.

 

Second vet was about £35 for consult and more Baytril.

 

By the time we got to Clive, Lola was at deaths door. Not eating, not really moving and she weighed 1500 grams. I had her tested for *everything* because I was at my witts end. I think the blood test alone was £120. Vent swab and fecal test on top of that. Clive was very good about the blood test, he left the decission up to me after mentioning it was possible but at that point I had no idea what was wrong with and didn't want her suffering like she was. I wanted to know what was wrong asap.

 

With hindsight I should probably have just taken the meds and seen if they helped, but you can understand my desperation I hope. We left there (after about an hour and a half consult wich I was only charged £20 for!) with steroids, more metacam, different anti 'bs and some probiotic thing for their water. Within a week Lola was on the road to recovery That visit was about £250. She went back a week later and we have more anti b's and steroids, 3 weeks worth of both, and another poop test which was about £90.

 

Fingers crossed when we go back Tuesday she'll be off everything and it will only be a consult and a poop test! She's a fat little chunck now, 2222 grams when I weighed her last night. Next thing will be a fortune in diet food

[Pottage]

I would feel bad getting posh birds, when there are so many batties needing a home.

[gavclojak]

£170 for an implant.....mine was £65.00 and didn't need any anaesthetic???? Eeeeks

I thought I could hear my vet shouting kerching when I pulled in to the car park, yours must roll out the red carpet for you. In all seriousness and I don't mean to soudn harsh, you really need to draw a line in the sand and not cross too far over it £££££

The whole point of chickem keeping for me is having ex-commercial girls.....however long they last, but if posh girls rock your boat then happy days

[Claireabella]

I'm so sorry to read that you have had such a tough time with your girls

 

I can say for certain that flubenvet will not get rid of tapeworm. My girls were wormed with flubenvet a week before I spotted that they had tapeworm. Like you, I wormed again with flubenvet and they still had them after that. You are more likely to spot tapeworm in the afternoon after they have eaten a fair bit and they will not be present in every dropping - so they can be difficult to detect. I always send any samples I need testing to Retfords Poultry, their prices are very reasonable and they can email the results in about 3 days. If it is tapeworm the key is to treat the worm load in the hen and poo pick as much as possible to break the tapeworm cycle. The drug for tapeworm is praziquantel (droncit for cats) - the vet will be able to tell you the dosage dependant on the weight of the hen. You would need to then establish a worming routine, alternating between flubenvet and praziquantel. Your vet can advise you about this. I personally don't think that hens are ever totally free of worms but keeping the number of worms down is important.

 

I would also say that you wouldn't need to use a scaly leg mite spray, since Ivermectin will also treat scaly leg mites. You won't really notice much difference though until they moult and the scales drop off.

[sparkysmum]

I'm afraid unless there was good reason to keep your hens on medication, I would take them off all meds. My hens are all over 5yrs old with the exception of my ex batts and almost without exception they have had no medication in their lives apart from flubenvet or panacur. one hen several years ago had scaly leg, but that has been it. We did lose 2 sablepoots to mareks and lost 2 batts due to extreme old age. They dont get anything by way of tonics or potions either. They are well fed and cared for. I think sometimes, we can over care for our pets and perhaps this isnt always a good idea. of course you must consult a vet when your hens are poorly but you must always take a balanced view to medication and also "where to draw the line" If your hens have been nursed back to health then good, it has been worth it, but if they are still poorly or become unwell again I think I would be tempted to let nature call the shots. Spmetimes letting them go is the last kindness you can give a pet. Hoping for less stressful days ahead for you. Axx

[Egluntyne]

I agree with sparkymum. I always ask myself if I prolonging a life or prolonging a death when I embark upon any treatment for an elderly hen who is approaching the end of her natural span.