Egluntyne Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Hideous to watch the video....and I've seen worse. The **CIWF site ** is excellent....but not for the faint hearted......but then again, we should be fully informed of what happens to the creatures who are bred to feed us. We should make it our business to be. I am glad to be a vegetarian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin B Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 I am glad to be a vegetarian. Nothing wrong with eating meat if it is good quality, free range, or even better organic, or even better oragnic and locally produced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted January 4, 2008 Author Share Posted January 4, 2008 I am glad to be a vegetarian. Nothing wrong with eating meat if it is good quality, free range, or even better organic, or even better oragnic and locally produced. I think it's a case of each to their own - I've just been talking to Phil about this as he is thinking of turning veggie (can't see it happening myself). I fall into the same camp as Martin on this, but I used to be veggie, for some time; I couldn't find meat that I was happy with the provenance of (in the days before farmers' markets). I was veggie for ages, then 'happy meat' became more readily available at about the same time as I was pregnant and had a blood-lust and needed red meat. I pointed out to Phil that if we were all veggie, then some animals just wouldn't exist any more as their whole purpose is to fuel the food chain. I do like my meat, but we don't eat loads of it and I eke it out with different recipes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronze Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 PRecisley why we're looking at hatching our own chickens/quail for food and I have a source for lamp/pigs too. My christmas present was a chest freezer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted January 4, 2008 Author Share Posted January 4, 2008 You lucky girl Bron - I wish I had the room for one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 I am glad to be a vegetarian. Nothing wrong with eating meat if it is good quality, free range, or even better organic, or even better oragnic and locally produced. I agree Martin. I don't believe I have said otherwise. I just prefer not to eat meat myself. I never liked it that much anyway so it was a logical step for me personally to take. I don't force my dietary opinions on others though. The family eat meat...and I cook it for them. Organic, free range and from a couple of reliable sources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 my friend does some volunteering work for the RSPCA, she usually forwards me any internal mails/press releases she gets about chickens. Thought you might be interested in this part of a press release she's just sent to me (if anyone wants to see the full mail, pm me) Please pay particular note to what exactly enriched cages actually mean. Subject: Fwd: Press release: Laying hens: barren battery cage ban is upheld Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 18:39:37 +0000 "...What are enriched cages? Since 2003, legislation has stipulated that any new cage systems built (in Europe) are so-called "enriched" cages. Enriched cages provide each hen with just 50cm² more useable space than conventional cages - the extra space is less than the size of a beer mat and the overall useable space per bird is still less than a sheet of A4 paper. The birds still don't have enough room to move around freely. There could be 20 or more than 100 hens in a cage. The majority of the flooring is still made of wire apart from a scratching mat and nest area. Enriched cages are a step in the right direction. Whereas conventional battery cages are barren (see above), enriched cages provide the birds with limited facilities including perches, and areas for scratching and laying eggs. They have a minimum headroom of 45cm, although when hens are perching this is reduced. The nest area is a beneficial inclusion but because its size is unspecified they are generally too small for the number of birds that use them. This means there can be competition to use the nesting area and some birds do not have the opportunity to carry out the full repertoire of nesting behaviours. The size of the scratching mats is also not specified and they are often not big enough for the number of birds. Due to the small size of the scratching mat it is difficult to provide appropriate material and quantities so they can dustbathe properly. A recent European study found that complete dustbathing behaviours were not carried out in enriched cages. The perches are also a positive inclusion but because of the lack of space they make it difficult for hens to move through the cages or for hens to rest undisturbed at different times of the day. How are the RSPCA standards better? The RSPCA's standards do not allow any type of battery cage - conventional or enriched. The RSPCA standards allow the birds more space. Conventional cages provide each bird with a minimum of 550cm2 and enriched cages with 600cm2 (750cm2 including the nesting area). RSPCA standards allow nearly double this - a minimum of 1,111cm2 per bird (in line with legislation, some older units can allow a minimum of 855cm2 until 2012). The RSPCA has set standards for barn and free-range types of production. Producers have to apply for organic accreditation separately, but can also apply RSPCA standards. Barn: In barns, birds have the opportunity to move around and perform natural behaviours. They also have facilities for choosing a nest box in which to lay their eggs and perform nesting behaviours, perches for roosting, and at least a third of the floor is covered in litter in which they can forage and dustbathe. Free-range: Most free-range hens live in buildings similar to the barns. In addition, the hens have an outside range area, with appropriate shade and shelter to encourage the hens outside and offer protection...." the good thing too is they're letting people know about the hidden eggs! Eggs as ingredients: Eggs can be commonly used as ingredients in many different types of food, including ice cream, mayonnaise, cakes, dressings, sauces, pies, quiches, sandwiches, pasta, vegetarian products and puddings. Since 2004 there has been a legal requirement for whole eggs and egg boxes to be labelled with how the eggs are produced (‘eggs from caged hens’, ‘barn’, ‘free-range’ or ‘organic’). Since then, an increasing number of people have bought higher welfare eggs. But eggs used as ingredients within products are rarely labelled with regard to how they were produced. About 85 per cent of processed eggs come from cages. About a quarter of the eggs produced in the UK are used as ingredients - in the UK flock that’s equivalent to over 6 million hens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin B Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Our basic maths let us down. 50 square centimetres is not the same as 50 centimetres square....but we read them as the same thing and think....hey...that's not bad...but when you realise that it is just the size of a beer mat........ We are being misled. I still reckon that every journey starts out with a small step though....and least it is a step forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 so how big is this? maths! RSPCA standards allow nearly double this - a minimum of 1,111cm2 per bird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I might be making a complete fool of myself....but I reckon that is equal to 2 pieces of A4paper (ish) I daresay someone will come along and tell me if I'm wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronze Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Our basic maths let us down. 50 square centimetres is not the same as 50 centimetres square....but we read them as the same thing and think....hey...that's not bad...but when you realise that it is just the size of a beer mat........ We are being misled. I still reckon that every journey starts out with a small step though....and least it is a step forward. yes because 50cms squared would be 2500 square cms sadly it actually means 7.07ish cms by the same again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronze Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 think the other means about 33cms x33cms so just over a foot squared Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I tried working it out, then for some reason the forum threw me out! I had to log in again! Anyway, I got the same result - a slightly larger area than my laptop (mine works out at 875cm2) Not much at all though is it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 better than the industry standard but not good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 i'm a bit confused as the above says The RSPCA's standards do not allow any type of battery cage - conventional or enriched. but then it goes on to talk about the cage size the RSPCA will allow!??? The RSPCA standards allow the birds more space. Conventional cages provide each bird with a minimum of 550cm2 and enriched cages with 600cm2 (750cm2 including the nesting area). RSPCA standards allow nearly double this - a minimum of 1,111cm2 per bird (in line with legislation, some older units can allow a minimum of 855cm2 until 2012). is it me reading it wrong??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 unless they mean that is the amout of space they allow in barn and free range systems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffie Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 It's space allowed Poet BBx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 It's space allowed Poet BBx i know that, but do they mean space in a barn or a cage??? They must mean a barn/free range systems and that aint much space is it! I've sent some feedback to my friend, maybe she can feed it back to the powers that be at the RSPCA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
