Ammonia smell in coop-first time owner

[Egghead68]

I have a poorly 6-month old Pekin with suspected mycoplasma and scaly leg mite. She is on Baytril from the vet for the mycoplasma and Johnson's Scaly mite/vaseline/tea-tree cream for the scaly leg mite. We are keeping her in an indoor makeshift coop. Both her conditions seem to be improving rapidly and she is quite perky. However today I noticed two new symptoms/behaviours: (1) shaking her head rapidly from side to side and (2) clacking her beak together repeatedly. Does anyone know what these might mean, please and what we can do about it? Might the surviving scaly mites have reached her ears? I am happy to take her back to the vets (3rd time!) but he is not an avian specialist (couldn't find one near Cambridge) so is unlikely to know.

Edited January 6, 2010 by Guest

[Tutti Frutti]

So sorry to read about your girl. Could she have gapeworm? This infests the respiratory system so could be confused with mycoplasma but would also cause her to shake her head. Have you wormed her with Flubenvet recently (I used to use Verm-X until my vet said it wasn't effective on gapeworm).

 

Shame about your vet - our cats' vet was the same so we googled vets in our area and rang around until we found someone who knew about chooks. MIght be worth trying someone else?

 

Good luck. Hope someone turns up here quickly to offer better advice.

[Plum]

I thought ears too but don't know about the beak clacking perhaps someone else has experience

[Tutti Frutti]

The beak clacking could also indicate gapeworm - we were told by the vet to watch out for this (and the head shaking) with Penny, as she wasn't sure if it was mycoplasma or gapeworm and the head shaking/clacking would confirm gapeworm

[Egghead68]

Thanks so much, both of you. The vet checked them for gapeworm and ruled it out but I think you could be right. I have flubenvet on order already and will worm both chickens as soon as it comes. Fingers crossed and thanks again.

[Egghead68]

Sorry - one more question. I would like to be pretty sure that (a) it is gapeworm and (b) it needs treating immediately and © that the treatment is OK to combine with Hetty's other ongoing treatments (Baytril & permethrin) before going ahead and worming her right now as I don't want to overload her system with more drugs unless absolutely necessary.

 

Just to be clear, neither Hetty P nor my other Pekin, Mrs P, is actually gaping. Since yesterday Hetty P has been head shaking frequently, drinking lots of water and clacking her beak occasionally. She has had respiratory problems for a couple of weeks that responded to Baytril but started again when we stopped the Baytril and are now responding to a second course. Mrs P has been clacking her beak frequently for some time. I haven't seen Mrs P shake her head but she has been sitting down a lot for the last two days and was quite tetchy today. She has no apparent respiratory problems but sneezes occasionally.

 

Does this still sound like gapeworm? Does anyone know a good chicken vet near Cambridge please? I have Ivermectin on order to drop on the backs of their necks against mites - would this be effective against gapeworm too?

[Egluntyne]

Stretching their necks, coughing, squeeky 'whistling' sounds, ruffled feathers, loss of appetite and weight loss are all symptoms of gapeworm.

 

In an badly infected bird you can see the red worms if you open the beak and shine a torch inside. Not an easy task, or one with which the hen will necessarily fully co-operate.

 

You are right about it not being a good idea to overload the hen with too many medications. I'd be inclined to wait till the antibiotics have finished, unless they become very distressed.

 

I would then take her back to the vet for another look see if you still think she does have gapeworm.

 

The Flubenvet dosage for gapeworm is double the normal dose, and with all the new vet med regulations, strictly speaking, it should now only be administered with the permission of a vet.

[Tutti Frutti]

Good thinking about the mixing of meds.

 

Does anyone know a good chicken vet near Cambridge please?

 

There's one listed here http://wiki.omlet.co.uk/index.php/Chicken_Friendly_Vets

 

Otherwise Google for vets in your area and ring around and, as you call them, ask if they can recommend anyone - we struck lucky with our 4th vet and they squeezed us in within 45 minutes, as Penny was taken so ill and so suddenlt (fine at lunchtime, fell over in the afternoon and couldn't get up ).

[Egghead68]

Thanks so so much for the replies.

 

I will monitor the situation for now. The chickens do not seem at all distressed today (although a bit itchy) and are both feisty and actually gaining weight. I took a look down Mrs P's throat (after a long tussle) and could not see anything. I'll book them in at the chicken friendly vet for later in the week and see what they suggest re gapeworm.

 

It is so nice to know that there are helpful knowledgeable people out there. Thank you everyone.

[sandyhas3chucks]

Interestingly, but not much help.... I have Miney Hen that clack clacks sometimes, and also flicks/shakes her head, she has always done both, the clack clacking I thought/decided was just sort of clearing her beak. She doesn't do it all the time but no one else seems to do it.

She was my Rescued hole in the neck hen, so wondered if head flicking is anything to do with the old injury.

I treated for gape initially, to be sure, got gazzillions of "other" worms mind, no gape, and she still did it.

Read every post I come across on head shaking, it seems to come and go. She seems to do it more when she is tired!

[Egghead68]

Oh that is interesting. We have noticed that the clicking stops if we give them a grape and wondered whether they had learned to do it just to get more grapes! They have both been gaping this afternoon, though, so we are increasingly thinking that they do have gapeworm.

[Egghead68]

Well - I took the chickens to the vet who was clueless and said he could not diagnose gapeworm without anaesthetising them to look down their throats. He said he did not have appropriate meds anyhow but to start them on Flubenvet as I had that on order. They started last night on a double dose.

 

However - I now wonder whether the problem with the little one could be sour crop as well as/instead of gapeworm. She is drinking a lot, her crop feels mushy (like a part water-filled balloon) and she has just finished a 3 week (!) course of Baytril so it's quite possible she has a fungal infection. We have started giving her live yoghurt and horse ACV in her water (together with her Flubenvet medicated pellets) but I read that the best thing is to give her nystatin, 1 ml/350 g body weight, twice a day, orally, for 5-7 days.

 

Should we give this concurrent with the Flubenvet? Or stop the Flubenvet and start this? Can I get nystatin from the chemists? I have read that yeast-related sour crop can kill quickly so I am quite worried. I don't really want to turn her upside down and "milk" the fluid out, for fear of choking her. Might yoghurt/garlic/ACV be enough to see it off without nystatin? Do we have to take her off solid foods until the sour crop clears up?

[Egghead68]

Just to add - she is pooing stringy dark poos and seems to be eating a lot but her crop does not feel full - just watery.

[Tutti Frutti]

I have no idea (sorry) but have you looked here? A couple of posts on crops, but not sour crop http://club.omlet.co.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=41

[sandyhas3chucks]

oh dear nystartin is PO i'm afraid. oral daktarin Not Licensed for poulrty a pea size blob 3 times a day MAY help.

There are a few dif threads if you do a search on sour crop, Some have had sucess with feeding only stewed apples. Citricidal in the water is also supposed to be good.

If the vet has already supplied the antibiotics, you could trty phoning and asking them to get the Nystatin for you , It is the liquid form you need.

Oh and ring around for a vet that knows something incase you need one.

They should I understand be able to pear down the thraot and look with a torch for gape. & besudes Flub at double strength IS the Mediacation for gape.

And persinally yes I would stop the treatment if you think she has sour crop.

I agree it does sound like you are correct.

YThis is only my opinion and exp.

And rattling this aff fast so you can do/get something.

Do read as much as you can about it, you MAY need as much info as possible.

Good luck, I expect the expert experts will pop in soon too.

sorry just re read found this.

Just to add - she is pooing stringy dark poos and seems to be eating a lot but her crop does not feel full - just watery.

_________________

Absent mother to:

1 mottled Pekin bantam hen (Mrs P, DOB November 2007)

1 white Pekin bantam pullet (Hetty P, DOB August 2009)

(beautifully looked after by their grandma)

 

[sandyhas3chucks]

Bokashi bran And live probiotic yoghurt are also recommened.

[Egghead68]

Thanks so much both of you. Any more advice greatly appreciated. I am panicking a bit and am in Bucks miles away from chickens who are with my mother.

[Egghead68]

A happy update. Been back twice to the vet recommended by Tutti Frutti. Vet was excellent and has had them on Flubenvet, double the dose of Baytril they were onbefore and Ivermectin. She has also bathed their legs and trimmed their toenails and given us lots of good advice. They will have to stay on antibiotics for a while but she is very happy with their progress and has given them the all clear to go back outside. Thanksso much to everyone for their help.

[sandyhas3chucks]

oh that is good! three cheers for tutti frutti then!

Just goes to show you!

[Egghead68]

And for you too, Sandy!

[Tutti Frutti]

Eh I didn't do anything!!! just found a link to a vet in Cambridge!!

 

It was YOU who did all the legwork and took your girls to the vet and I think all thanks are due to them. I am so glad your girls are on the mend! So was it gapeworm or mycoplasma? Was it the Flubenvet or Baytril that did the trick? Maybe both!

 

Just glad I was able to help and offer ideas based on my experience with Penny...

[sandyhas3chucks]

ahh i see Thought TF recommended Vet.

Totaly agree YOU got her to the Vet, Well done, many just don't do it!

[Egghead68]

Well TF pointed me in the right direction! And it was my mum who took them to the vets - she is a saint. The vet thinks probably mycoplasma, not gape, but I guess we won't ever know for sure.