How many chickens in Eglu Cube

[superkitty]

Hi everyone, I'm new here and unfortunately my first ever post is about mites...Yuk. We have had our two Orpingtons (Constance and Augusta) for about 3 months now and so far they seem to have been doing well. Although they're not laying yet...but I assume that's because it's Winter? They were supposedly 28 weeks when we got them. Anyway, I digress.

 

We keep them in an Eglu classic (bought in August this year so presumably the 'mark 2' that I've seen mentioned elsewhere?) with the run extension, plus they also have a pretty large area fenced off with the chicken fencing to scrat about in. They have a dust bath outside the run (but inside the fenced pen) which is compost, diatom and silver sand - they were using it every day until the wetter weather and then seemed to stop because it got a bit damper. So they have seemed pretty happy so far.

 

I clean the Eglu out each week, hose it all down, dry it off and I use shredded paper in the nest box. I also do the checks that the breeder told us to do each week (checking for crawlies, listening for chest rattles, looking at feet, looking at bum etc. and all has been fine. I've never seen any mites or bugs or anything so far...but must admit that we were away last weekend so all I had a chance to do was clean the coop etc, not do the checks. We have just finished their second worming with Flubenvet, last week, as the breeder told us to worm them in October which we did. I noticed earlier in the week that Constance looked to have a damp bum but thought it might be something to do with her being wormed, so just figured I'd check it out when I did the weekend checks on her.

 

So today I picked her up to have a look and AAAAAGGGGHHHH, lots of little grey round crawly things - presumably northern fowl mite? There were a few more of them underneath the roosting bars in the eglu when I checked, and a further few around the top under the cover - but not tons - most of them seemed to be on her!

 

So after a bit of jumping up and down and scratching frantically and wanting to scrub myself with a wire brush (am still itching now!) I powdered them both with diatom as a stopgap, read every thread on this forum that I could find about mites etc. and then went off to see the vet, who gave me 'Xeno 450' spot on treatment. We treated them both with that this afternoon, and I also put diatom liberally in the (pressure washed and dried) eglu after I'd cleaned it. I also got a new dustbath (a cat litter tray) and filled it half and half with aquarium sand and diatom powder, and put it in the run under the clear rain cover, so it stays dry and hopefully they'll start using it again.

 

I got some mite spray with permethrin in but I'm a bit scared to use it because I have two cats (Beau and Cha Cha) who are my babies and I don't want to risk making them ill. So anyway....FINALLY getting to the point, I have a couple of questions I'm hoping a much more knowledgeable chicken-keeper will be able to help me with:

 

1. I can't find any mention of Xeno 450 on any of the threads. Is anyone familiar with it? It's licensed for birds, the vet said - and it has ivermectin in. He told me to treat them today, then in 2 weeks' time, then again 4 weeks after that. Then once every couple of months after that as a preventative. But lots of the threads are talking about weekly treatments etc. Should I try and treat them more often, or just go with what he said? How long should the mites on the chickens take to die; is it within 48 hours like the Advantage spot on that I use on the cats?

2. How long does the permethrin in the mite kill spray actually stay toxic to cats for? Forever? (i.e. until it gets washed off when I clean the eglu?) Or does it become inactive? If it stays active, what happens if it gets washed off into the soil and then one of the cats somehow eats it? SO PARANOID about it hurting the cats

3. Apart from using the Xeno 450, should I do anything else but keep the eglu clean and diatomed and make sure they have a diatom dustbath available all the time? I don't want to overload them with pesticides etc. but I also want to make sure I get rid of the mites.

 

Sorry for the really long post and what might be really stupid questions, but I do love our girls and I just want to make sure I'm doing it right! Any suggestions or advice will be very gratefully received!

 

Thanks in advance for your help! *goes away to scratch and jump up and down a bit more*

[Egluntyne]

It isn't licensed for chickens as the the medication may affect the eggs. Some vets will prescribe Xeno 200 ... but there is an egg withdrawal period.

[superkitty]

Ah ok, so I need to mention each time that it's not licensed for use on poultry like I've seen elsewhere? I'll see if I can figure out how to edit my original post to show that. Kind of a moot point for me personally, as they're not laying yet But definitely understand the need to mention it, if it's not licensed for chickens.

 

....any help with the actual questions?

[Redwing]

1) follow what your vet says, weekly applications of things apply to powders etc.. and not directly to Xeno

 

2) I'm not too sure, I'd be tempted to clean the Eglu with some hot water and poultry sheild then just use the spray under the roosting bars around the nestbox joins and around the inside seam of the Eglu, keep the cat well out of the way while you use the spray but once the spray dries and the Eglu lid is back on the cat shouldnt have access to it and I'd say it would be fine

 

3) no, the Xeno should do the job

 

As an aside keep an eye on the feathers around the vent, sometimes they dont clean up very well and the hen needs a bath to make it look better and be more comfortable

[superkitty]

Thank you; I feel a bit better about it now - will spray the coop this afternoon and check the girls to see if the spot on looks like its working!

[superkitty]

Hi - more questions I'm afraid I checked the eglu this morning and couldnt find a single mite. Then i checked Constance and I can still see tiny grey crawly things on her skin and her feathers. Nowhere near as many as when I first discovered them, but definitely still some there. What should I do next? I'm not supposed to treat them with the next lot of xeno drops for another 2 weeks...can I treat her with something different in the interim? I don't want to poison her :-[ She looks a bit mucky and uncomfortable, like you said - so I'm happy to try and give her a bath today .. But won't that wash off the xeno (doesn't it spread over their skin like the spot on stuff for cats?)

if it does, then should I treat her again after her bath? Should I bath her in something specific (e.g. Any detergent?) or just warm water?

Help, not sure what to do

[superkitty]

P.s. are they even mites? They are tiny and grey, look like the ones on the skin can move quite fast. Smaller than a pinhead.

[Egluntyne]

Can you post a picture of them?

 

Could be Northern Fowl Mite. They sound too small to be bog standard lice.

[superkitty]

That could be interesting! Will give it a go. I just had a quick look for pictures online of NFM and they do look pretty much like that. Just worried that I could/should be doing more....but then worried about doing the wrong thing as well!

[superkitty]

Aha! Just found something on another thread

 

"Also be aware that Ivermectin* doesn't kill all mites. I have had success using it to treat lice, and scaley leg mites, but it won't get rid of Northern Fowl Mites; you need either Ivomec Eprinex* or Johnson's Mite Spray* for that."

 

So if it is NFM, what the vet gave me won't work - I need to get hold of one of the above, sounds like.

 

...off to call the vet, I think!

[Redwing]

They do sound like Northern Fowl Mites

 

I'd personally bathe her, use dog shampoo or human 'clear' shampoo (as opposed to the creamy stuff) if its medicated/tea tree all the better

 

Fill a sink with warm water (chicken chest height) add the shampoo to the water to make it soapy

 

Place the chicken in the water supporting it with one hand to keep its head out of the water, let it soak for a while then put some shampoo in your free hand and work that in round the vent to really clean the feathers

 

let the water out of the sink then refill with clean to rinse

 

You can use two buckets/tub trugs, one with the soapy water and one with the clean water

 

Dont use running water for the bath itself, you need to soak the mites

 

shallow water can make them flap and also you ened to get the mites before they can spread out so a deep bath is the way to go

 

Once the bath is complete blot as much water off as you can with a towel

 

You can use a hairdryer to dry the chook but I leave mine in a clean cardboard box with some bedding by a radiator for the day/night to dry off naturally, this takes some hours. Once dry (and completely dry) they can go back with the others

 

The Xeno is good for mites in general but my weapon of choice for NFM is Johnsons Mite Spray Extra which is just awesome stuff (not licenced for use on poultry) one spray by the vent and one under each wing does a good job. You can treat with the Xeno again once the chook is dry though then start the two week wait again (if that makes sense)

 

You can get the Johnsons spray off the internet

[superkitty]

Wow, thanks - that's so helpful! Ok, am going to do it. I have some neutrogena shampoo so will use that.

 

I have now waiting on a callback from the vets and have also ordered some Johnsons AntiMite and Poultry Shield from amazon on express delivery (so will hopefully arrive tomorrow) - but in the meantime I'd like to feel like I'm doing something...so bathing her it is. This will be my first time...wish me luck

 

...off to change into my waterproofs...

 

p.s. how long is 'a while' i.e. how long should I let her soak for?

[The Dogmother]

I've replied to your PM superkitty. Sounds like NFM to me too.

 

I've used a dog flea shampoo in the past and it cleared them really well. Follow it up with a spray and powder if necessary, then repeat a week later. They are very tenacious and will be drawn to any sick bird (as will lice) so make sure that you bolster her immune system with a good poultry tonic as the mites will make her anaemic and very uncomfortable.

 

Oh.... the little blighters will bite you too - expect tiny red pin pricks I put Vaseline around my wrists or forearms if dealing with mite-bound or lousy chickens.

[Redwing]

Let her soak for a good five mins, place a hand on her back to settle her if necessary but they normally chill out and stand there ok

 

 

Bathing her will knock back the number of mites considerably so is well worth doing so you can get on top of the problem

[The Dogmother]

Yup, I give them a good soak. If she's had NFM for a while, you may find a crust of dead stuff to peel off gently - a friend and I did this to several of her flock a couple of years back. Thankfully it was a hot sunny day so they could dry off in the sun.

[superkitty]

Thanks Dogmother. I am suiting up to start the bath as we speak.

[The Dogmother]

I feel that we need to see photos!

 

It's a grubby task and easier with two of you (if possible) but they'll feel better when they are clean and mite free.

[superkitty]

All done! After a quick trip to the shops to get some dog shampoo, Constance is now bathed (in dog shampoo which had permethrine in - presume that is what everyone meant by dog shampoo?), clean, relatively dry and tucked up in one of the pet carriers next to the radiator in the living room, drying off. I've shut the cats out of the room so she can have some peace and quiet, as they were investigating what was in the carrier!

 

I did have a go at drying her a bit with the travel hairdryer after I'd blotted most of the water off, but she didn't like it (which was a shame, because she seemed to really actively enjoy the bathing bit!) and started gaping her beak (is that a sign of distress? It looked like it. either way, I stopped!) At the end of the bath while she was still in the water, I had a good look and couldn't see anything moving on her skin (easier to see when the feathers are wet, isn't it?) and also gently rubbed off some pale brown patches from around her vent and in a couple of other spots near there (eggs? scabs?). I guess even if it doesn't get rid of them entirely at least it'll give her a bit of relief. Augusta is beside herself though, honking and hooting away outside calling for Constance. I'm hoping she'll be dry enough to put her back in tonight, so August doesn't have to go to bed on her own

 

I've tried giving her some live mealworms (protein!) which she normally practically bites your hand off to get, but she's not interested - so I guess she just needs a bit of time to recover in the quiet.

 

Also, the vet called back and said I shouldn't treat her with anything else, just wait the two weeks and do her again with Xeno 450, as otherwise I risked exposing her to too many chemicals. I said I was thinking of giving her a bath which would get rid of some of them, and she said scathingly 'well, that might be slight overkill, don't you think?'. So I am choosing to ignore her! Hopefully the Johnsons Mite Spray will arrive tomorrow, and I'll do both the girls with that - a spray near the vent and one under each wing. Unless anyone agrees with the vet and thinks I should just leave her?

 

Assuming that works, should I then do them regularly with the Mite Spray as a preventative? And if so, how often?

 

I'm so sorry that my first forays into the forum have been this barrage of lengthy (and panicky) questions. But I'm very glad that all you experienced chicken keepers came to my aid. Very reassuring to get some advice from people who know what they're talking about - THANK YOU

[The Dogmother]

Well done!

 

The gaping means that she is too warm.

 

I'd use a spot-on (as we discussed by PM) as a preventative every quarter and then spray if you see any lice/mites, making sure to repeat the spray after a week. That works for mine. Spray around the vent and under the wings. If you have a chook with a tufted head, then check that too.

[superkitty]

After a quiet night next to the radiator, a giant mealworms-and-sunflower-seeds feedup and then a joyous reunion with Augusta, here is one nice fluffy clean pair of Constance knickers

 

Constance by Faith Al-Egaily, on Flickr

 

Of course, there is now something else to worry about (I think she's got something wrong with her eye but will put that on a different thread.

[The Dogmother]

That looks good

 

Now that you have a clean slate (so to speak) best that you get started on a good prevention programme.

[Egluntyne]

I imagine that if one hen is affected, they all will be, so I'd treat the other(s) as a precaution.

[superkitty]

I'll definitely be doing them both with the Johnsons AntiMite spray when it arrives tomorrow, but I couldn't even see any crawlies on Augusta when I checked her closely yesterday, and her bum/vent looks totally clean, so didn't bath her.

 

Do you think I should bath her just as a precaution, or will I be ok just treating them with the spray and then (going forward) with the Ivomec Eprinex as a preventative?

[Egluntyne]

If she looks OK, then I'd wait till tomorrow and spray them. You can always review and bathe her if needs be.

[superkitty]

Ok, me again (sorry! hopefully this'll be the last question about mites from me!!) The Johnsons Anti Mite Extra just arrived, so I want to treat them both with it as soon as I can. Could I just check a couple of things before I do?

 

1. I presume you have to make sure you spray it on the skin rather than on the feathers - so is the best way to brush their feathers backwards so that as much skin as poss is showing, and then spray them? This is going to be interesting - I'm here on my own today I don't suppose it would be ok to do what I occasionally do with the cats and wrap them in a towel to keep them still (and then just uncover the various body parts to spray ) would it?

 

2. Also, the bottle says 3-5 sprays for large birds...but as its for cage birds and pigeons (and the girls weigh around 2.5kg each so presumably larger than a pigeon!!) should I use more than that? Maybe a couple of sprays under each wing and then 3 or 4 around the back end? Not sure

 

Thanks in advance for your advice