CatieB Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Even words of sympathy may save my sanity.....I am losing it Scout my stupid, daft, baffoon of a puppy is driving me mad. He is now 7 months old and still not house trained. Quite simply I am losing my patience and certainly my humour. He doesn't get it and shows no signs that he needs a wee or any sign that he knows he shouldn't do it in the house. We regularly take him out...he wees whilst outside and clearly recognises our command. We take him out after food, play and when he's let out of his crate. Yet when he wants a wee in the house he does it. Tonight he even did a wee a foot or so away from me in the living room next to the sofa, so not even a hidden place, corner or extremity as if he is trying to get out. Yes we always take him out by the same route. Yes we praise him when he does it outside. In fact anyone watching us would think we are positive nutters. I have tried ignoring the ones in the house and also telling him off. We have another dog for him to learn from who scratches at a door to go out. He has had his urine checked and its fine. HELP me and him. I can no longer be patient about this. Sorry but Ive lost all sense of perspective and feel like Ive tried everything. It makes me on edge as he has to be constantly watched or in his crate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatieB Posted November 6, 2014 Author Share Posted November 6, 2014 I dont know if it makes a difference but he is a spoodle - welsh springer spaniel cross poodle. We have had him since he was old enough to leave his mum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat tails Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 I can totally understand your frustration, that must drive you insane! An old lady used to have a young dachshund that at 2 years old still peed in the house regurlarly, but he did it out of boredom. Because the lady would get up, and be all busy and annoyed and he would just follow her around the house. When we had to take care of him for a while( she was in hospital) he did this in our house as well. I completely lost it, because I just walked him 10 min before. I threw a set of keys at him... while he was in the process of urinating. I know I shouldn't have done it, because I might have hit him (I didn't though). He was really startled and never peed in the house again. I also trained him to wee in certain areas outside (a 5 min walk away from my house). That meant, that by the time we got there, he really needed to pee and would relieve himself more completely. (He was a tinkler... Little wee here, little wee there, but never completely empty) A vet told me once that castration sometimes also could solve these problems in more mature dogs. Don't give up hope yet! He is still young. But I know how frustrating it can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PixieDust Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Woah! And breathe. He is only 7 months old. He is just becoming an adolescent and he needs guidance. Please don't throw anything at him. OK. Every time you take him out and he does his business, treat him and praise him. As hard as it is, when he wees in the house say nothing. This is very important. Do not scold or hit or shout at him. Just clean up the mess offering no eye contact. You wont like me for this but when you have scolded him you have confirmed what he is doing is right. Now he's confused. Dogs are an anomoly to us. Where we would tell someone off and they know they are in the wrong, a dog sees ANY interaction as confirmation of his behaviour. As humans it is hard for us not to respond with a human emotion. However, you need to get the toileting sorted for both of you. Bit complicated but it's a thing called positive reinforcement. When you treat, talk to, stroke, pat, have eye contact with your dog, you dog will continue the behaviour he was doing at that point in time. To interact with him confirms he is doing the right thing. So when he goes outside, not just major praise but treats too. Soon he will think, "Oh, when I go out here they love me, give me treats. When I go in there they ignore me. I don't like being ignored. I'll go out here" I have had dogs for 32 years. Please keep us informed and if you want any other help please ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatieB Posted November 7, 2014 Author Share Posted November 7, 2014 Just to clarify before anyone thinks I'm cruel. I mean I am personally losing patience and ranting to my other half, or on here is the height of me losing it. I haven't done anything to him other than a strongly worded sharp NO last night which did stop him mid flow. I then took him outside where he continued his wee. I know you say 7 months isn't old but most people seem to agree he should be house trained by now. Surely this isn't usual. We have installed a routine since we first got him and he is showing no signs of understanding. We've done the ignoring it for a long time now. I'm fed up walking through wee or having to watch him like a hawk. Unfortunately my losing it did include telling my son that the dog will have to go if he doesn't stop weeing. So I can now top rubbish parent list as well as the rubbish dog owner one......going off now hanging my head in shame . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucky Mama Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 It is quite normal to have a virtually house trained puppy that suddenly regresses at around 6-7 months I have some questions: What breed is he? Does he ever soil in his crate? Is it just urine or does he poo as well? Is he very sniffy and busy when he is outdoors? Does he pee small amounts when he is outside? Does he submissively urinate or urinate through excitement? How much urinating does he do on a walk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatieB Posted November 7, 2014 Author Share Posted November 7, 2014 What breed is he? A spoodle which is a cross welsh springer spaniel mum, minature poodle dad. Does he ever soil in his crate? No and he can stay in it quite some time. We have, albeit rarely had to leave him and he has been fine. He has never soiled the crate but very occassionally it is wet although we are not sure if that is from his water or a wee Is it just urine or does he poo as well? He hasnt pooed for a long long time, I think he may be ok with poo but hubby would say he doesnt have the opportunity to poo as he is taken out so often particularly around the times we know he needs a poo - we have seen a pattern eg so long after his meal Is he very sniffy and busy when he is outdoors? Not particularly. We had a previous spaniel who was always nose down. Scout is much more of a bumbling, jumping daft baffoon. He bounds around as excited as can be. Should have been called boris he looks and acts like boris the mayor Does he pee small amounts when he is outside? No not typically. Our last spaniel did a million separate wees on each trip or walk out. Scout tends to be a long wee or maybe two, unless like last night I stopped him mid act. Does he submissively urinate or urinate through excitement? No How much urinating does he do on a walk? just a couple, usually an immediate long one and then if we are out for a long time another one I hope you have some words of wisdom. He doesnt seem to have regressed, he never seems to have got it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat tails Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Just to clarify before anyone thinks I'm cruel. I mean I am personally losing patience and ranting to my other half, or on here is the height of me losing it. I haven't done anything to him other than a strongly worded sharp NO last night which did stop him mid flow. I then took him outside where he continued his wee. I know you say 7 months isn't old but most people seem to agree he should be house trained by now. Surely this isn't usual. We have installed a routine since we first got him and he is showing no signs of understanding. We've done the ignoring it for a long time now. I'm fed up walking through wee or having to watch him like a hawk. Unfortunately my losing it did include telling my son that the dog will have to go if he doesn't stop weeing. So I can now top rubbish parent list as well as the rubbish dog owner one......going off now hanging my head in shame . Don't be ashamed! This can be very upsetting! Especially since you've invested so much already! I really hope you'll find a solution and can start enjoying scout more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patsylabrador Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I'm not sure if this is helpful but I feel for you and thought I'd add my bit. I've only had one puppy and only for one year but she was a guide dog puppy so I had lots of guidance. On their instruction we had a clearly defined toilet area, we used trellis to make a small fence which was directly outside the door to the patio. She was taken out for wee and poo when we decided and command words were repeated over and over. I guess it was the same as saying "have you been? " to a small child before going out or going to bed. I had to be so very patient as she would be distracted by a passing leaf or just stand and watch the planes in the sky - especially at bedtime when I was tired. But it was effective training and I was wondering if your dog needs very set rules/boundaries like some children do. I hope you sort it out, I wouldn't have had your patience, and needed support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucky Mama Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 What breed is he? A spoodle which is a cross welsh springer spaniel mum, minature poodle dad. Does he ever soil in his crate? No and he can stay in it quite some time. We have, albeit rarely had to leave him and he has been fine. He has never soiled the crate but very occassionally it is wet although we are not sure if that is from his water or a wee So, sounds like he is a dog that knows that he 'wants' to be clean which is good. It also would appear that he can hold on to his urine for a time Is it just urine or does he poo as well? He hasnt pooed for a long long time, I think he may be ok with poo but hubby would say he doesnt have the opportunity to poo as he is taken out so often particularly around the times we know he needs a poo - we have seen a pattern eg so long after his meal This is good and shows that your housetraining has moved on from puppyhood so don't be too down, you have made progress! Is he very sniffy and busy when he is outdoors? Not particularly. We had a previous spaniel who was always nose down. Scout is much more of a bumbling, jumping daft baffoon. He bounds around as excited as can be. Should have been called boris he looks and acts like boris the mayor I asked this as some puppies are so preoccupied with playing larking around that they only partially empty their bladders. Just make sure that your attention and lavish praise isn't interupting 'the flow!' Perhaps make the trip to the garden less full on so that he can focus on the job in hand. If he gets a bit bored, he might be more likely to go to the loo and fully empty his bladder How much urinating does he do on a walk? just a couple, usually an immediate long one and then if we are out for a long time another one Does he have accidents in the house after a walk or just when he he has supposed to have been in the garden? Hate to say it but he may not be a particuarly bright dog and it may take longer for the penny to drop. If he was soiling his crate I would be worried so the fact he is clean in there is a good sign. Keep a diary so that you can keep a proper record of what is going on and what works. If he tends to be clean after a walk then look at doing that in place of garden toileting for a while. You need to break the habit of inside toileting. Also look at whether you are inadvertently stopping him from completing a pee in the garden. Relax, turn off the exuberant praise and be more low key. You need to look at him as if he were a new puppy just home from mum. Take things back to basics. If his is not supervised, pop him in the crate. Bring him out little and often when you feel it is safe for play and training (and of course for toileting). The other thing that you could look at is putting him on wet food if he is currently fed dry food. It may make him drink less. Of course do not restrict water intake. I am assuming that you have had medical causes ruled out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PixieDust Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 CatieB please don't think this is at all unusual. He is entering adolescence and as someone else mentioned training goes out the window. My current dog is very bright but it took me a year to completely house train him and 2 years to get bite inhibition from him. My previous dog was house trained in a matter of weeks. Please also do not think I said you were cruel. I don't think that for a minute. He is not getting it for some reason so give what I suggested a go but remember there is never a quick fix with a dog. A dog can learn a bad behaviour in 5 minutes and take years to unlearn it, especially at his impressionable age. But I would suggest a quick vet visit to rule out and bladder infection or anything else. Please be patient. He seems like he is trying. He just needs the motivation to go outside. I disagree that being more low key with praise is the way forward. Once he had done a wee outside he needs praise and treats. Make it the best thing ever to wee out side. I do agree the toileting should return to basics but not everything else. Just keep reinforcing everything he has learnt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavenders_Blue Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 I don't have anything much more to add to this, except to say what helped when I was housetraining Tango was interrupting inside wees and not interrupting outside wees. So if I saw her squatting to wee inside I'd interrupt her (not tell her off, just a lively 'this way' and take her straight outside) but when she weed outside I didn't praise until after she finished, so it didn't interrupt her emptying her bladder. I also had to watch her like a hawk in the house and I also restricted the rooms she could access until she was housetrained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandmashazzie Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 We also have a Mini Schnauser aged 2 who I would have said was house trained.Will look at door to go out,wees on walks .though having moved house she seems determined to wee in every room in house.Is this marking her territory ? In our last house there were odd accidents found upstairs but here she is peeing whenever she gets the chance inside.I have now tried to keep her in utility room as much as poss with door open to kitchen and safety gate on.Do you think this will settle? She is walked 5-6 times a day.I am waiting for carpet for lounge to arrive and as she has peed on under felt several times I don't want her ruining carpet,nor do I want a dog banished from the living area and kept apart from the family.We also have an older dog if this makes her want to scent the area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucky Mama Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 We also have a Mini Schnauser aged 2 who I would have said was house trained.Will look at door to go out,wees on walks .though having moved house she seems determined to wee in every room in house.Is this marking her territory ? In our last house there were odd accidents found upstairs but here she is peeing whenever she gets the chance inside.I have now tried to keep her in utility room as much as poss with door open to kitchen and safety gate on.Do you think this will settle? She is walked 5-6 times a day.I am waiting for carpet for lounge to arrive and as she has peed on under felt several times I don't want her ruining carpet,nor do I want a dog banished from the living area and kept apart from the family.We also have an older dog if this makes her want to scent the area. The first port of call should be the vets armed with a urine sample (clean pot or jar with no traces of sugar!). You need to rule out any medical causes including things like 'sand' in the bladder or bladder stones. You also need to look at removing any smell from the areas that she has soiled. You may not be able to smell it but she might, so use something like SImple Solution. Do not mask the area or smell with strong smelling cleaners, the smell should be neutralised, not covered. Never us pine scented cleaners which can encourage marking. You may well be advised to use some form of stress relieving products such as an Adaptil Collar, Diffuser or Spray, or a Pet Remedy Diffuser. Zylekene capsules might also help if this has been triggered by stress. Then, look at reverting to some puppy housetraining techniques. Keep her confined to certain areas where is is clean and allow more access to other areas when supervised and can be trusted. Don't get stressed or cross with her if she has an accident as it will heighten her stress levels and make her worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandmashazzie Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Oh thank you Chucky Mama that sounds good advice.I have Adaptil spray somewhere,got it for her going on ferry.I will try and get sample,I'm sure this is easier said than done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucky Mama Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 An old frying pan can come in useful! You can spay the adaptil in areas she feels inclined to pee in and also spray some on a bandana or a hankie tied around her collar too this way the caling pheromones will travel around the house with her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandmashazzie Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Spot on Chucky Mama.She peed on ceramic tiles and I was able to syringe some and take sample to vets.I knew to look at it she had infection it was dark and cloudy.She started antibiotics so hope behaviour will stop.Her appetite has already improved.By the way Ithink we should include mini schnauzers in the cat category when it comes to getting tablets in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucky Mama Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Glad to hear that there has been some progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatieB Posted December 26, 2014 Author Share Posted December 26, 2014 An update. Scout is FINALLY not going to the toilet in the house . I think that he has just learnt that you don't do it. However we give him little opportunity as we have established quite a routine so I am still not sure we would recognise his signs if he was desperate. Following on the thread about catching wee samples, a really good item for this is the old Chinese take away tubs. We keep a few, the plastic ones with tight fitting lids. Mid wee slip a clean one under and put the lid on..job done. Whilst he is house trained I think he is competing for the naughtiest dog ever, Ive never had one like this before. It is constant. He goes from one naughty escapade to the next. So my tea towels are always on the floor, pulled off wherever I hang them. The latest naughty trick is to jump up on the dining chairs or put his paws up on the kitchen side and peer up to see what he can gert. He also regularly death walls round the house making me feel quite sick looking at him. He is the liveliest dog ever. Some of his escapades are funny, although I try not to laugh. I feel like an old hag constantly saying scout NO!!! He really is very cute I wish there was a way to post a picture for you all but Im not on photobucket or anything similar. Scout is excited by everything, in fact just life itself. Im not sure his tail stops wagging much. Tips on how to stop him jumping up would be much appreciated. I have tried ignoring him, pushing him back down and a sharp no. He ignores them all and 5 minutes later does it again. Off I go to rescue my tea towel once more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavenders_Blue Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Hooray and well done for getting the house training cracked. You're doing the right thing by not giving him the opportunity to get it wrong, I kept taking Tango out very regularly for quite some time after she seemed to get the hang of it and gradually increased the time between toilet breaks. Re the mad behaviour, if it's any consolation, Tango was like this too. It seems to be the deadly mix of a smart dog who needs their brain kept active and a fit dog who needs their body kept active. Plenty of exercise (without over doing it), mind games such as trick training, puzzle games (feed meals in treat dispensing toys) etc, and a good quality diet (ie nothing with loads of colours, sugars and e-numbers as they can cause hyper behaviour)..... and then wait for him to grow out of it Oops - ETA I meant to suggest re the jumping up, give him something you DO want him to do instead. So every time he jumps up you could ask for a sit and reward him for that. He ought to get the hang of it quick enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandmashazzie Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Oh CatieB he sounds quite a character.I am no expert but perhaps he just will take a while to pick up cues,like he did with toilet training. I guess I would just put tea towels well out of his way and firmly put him down when he jumps up.My dog turned out to have a bladder stone,which vet is trying to 'dissolve 'with special diet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
