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Beantree

Baytril -additional factors to consider

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We've had more than our share of problems here recently, one being poor response to a treatment with Baytril 10% oral which was administered under vet guidance at 0.1mL per Kg bodyweight twice a day for 10 days. The problem wasn't entirely resolved and flared up again. Doing some research revealed the following:-

 

Calcium seriously inhibits the absorption of Baytril. Of course that's what is in abundance in layers pellets and to a much lesser extent in rearers pellets. Now our sick hen is getting a further dose she has gone onto rearers pellets, although it still has some Calcium, because what else can she be fed?

 

If probiotics are being used to support gut function during antibiotic treatment they must be given at least 2 hours apart. Baytril kills the gut flora so to keep the hen's digestion working to some extent we have been using Avipro Avian. I contacted their vet and this is one reason the product was developed. Unfortunately we were giving both together, so it seems in effect one cancelled out the other and our hen was on a half dose of Baytril. We've now stopped the Avipro until after treatment.

 

Continuing treating with Baytril over 10 days can lead to the formation of cankers apparently. We will limit treatment to 9 days as a precaution.

 

Worth mentioning is our vet advised egg withdrawal with Baytril treatment must now be permanent. We haven't a problem with that as I doubt she will lay again being 5 years old in Spring and I think she only laid three eggs last year anyway.

 

Not sure if this will be of any help to anyone, but these are things our vet didn't mention and which can have a big effect on the effectiveness of Baytril treatment. They may also be applicable to other antibiotics perhaps?

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Sorry to hear that you've had problems.

 

From memory (haven't had to use antibiotics for ages) those are common recommendations; I always followed up any dosing with a week's worth of good quality poultry tonic with probiotics.

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Sorry to hear the Baytril has had poor results, what was it being used to treat?

 

Antibiotics will wipe out bacteria, as you say, including gut flora so probiotics are often prescribed after a course of ABs but not during as they're counterproductive.

 

Not heard specifically of Canker onset after 10 days but I can see why, I wouldn't worry and if the vet prescribed 10 days make sure you finish the dose as not to cause antibiotic resistance.

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We were treating a possible urinary tract infection. The theory was that the resulting swelling had obstructed the digestive tract so that's why her crop wouldn't empty. Her crop is empty now so back on the probiotics. Problem is she still isn't that keen on eating, basically because she hasn't the energy to do anything much. But we've invested 3 months time treating her and haven't given up yet.

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Are you syringe feeding her?

 

Pureed baby food is good for this, for energy, make up a porridge of pellets and oats in water with a little NutriDrtops, liquidise it and syringe that into her. This worked well for me in one bird, the other one - a few years later - still didn't thrive so she was despatched

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We grind up rearer pellets, add water and roll them into soft balls the size of which is to suit the 'patient' Dogmother. We've used the method on many that wouldn't eat, or wouldn't eat enough, for whatever reason. We then move onto a pellet mash and usually they start eating dry pellets on their own. Bits of cabbage, tomato, apple or cucumber aids the process.

 

Anyway this morning her crop is completely empty and she is eating pellets from a bowl. She is actually wandering around the house looking for grubs, which is something she hasn't done for a month or so. There is still hope as she is naturally a 'piggy' Orpington and I would expect her to revert to that behaviour as both her sisters did after digestive issues.

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I don't like Baytril. It was used in my previous dog who developed cancer. It is a chemotherapeutic agent. I guess that is why it is banned for use in poultry in the US.

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After 7 days on Baytril she seemed much better, but her energy reserves after 3 ½ months of treatment were almost nil. We started on the Avipro Avian 3 hours after the last dose of Baytril but the next day she was noticeably wobbly. the day after that and she could hardly stand. She got to the point of complete exhaustion, despite being fed she wasn't digesting it. Fortunately the probiotics began to establish themselves and today she is eating. We are still feeding balls of Rearer pellets but she may soon be able to feed herself. Drinking isn't a problem. She now weighs just 2 lbs, down from her original 8 lbs plus. A real fighter without a doubt!

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After 15 weeks of treatment and if she was that wobbly she couldn't stand I would have a think about her quality of life and the reasons for further treatment.

I don't how old she is and how she is today but she sounds very poorly from your post, especially if she isn't eating by herself and is down to 25% of her original bodyweight.

 

I understand she is loved and you are seeking veterinary attention but three and a half months of treatment for a chicken is a very long time.

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Appreciate your point Iwescott and her welfare remains paramount. Whilst she enjoys wandering about in the garden in the sunshine we will try to help her help herself. She got very excited earlier when catching and eating a small cricket type creature, which I hope she can digest. She still soil bathes and chases grain and will be 5 years old in Spring. She is on her last chance now and we are well aware of it.

 

It's always a difficult decision. We had a very sick cockerel once and I thought it was all over and considered despatch. The advice I was given was if he still wants to fight for life help him. We did; his magnificent son does him credit.

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Beantree, how is your girl?? Can we please have an update?

 

I'm treating a girl for sour crop here! Let's hope our girls make it :pray:

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She's doing rather well at the moment thank you Mimi. I got my dates mixed up and she had only been in for 2 ½ months. The failure of the first course of Baytril extended treatment by a month. She is still weak due to muscle wastage, but is very keen to get out and has to be held back. Yesterday was the first time she hadn't needed supplementary feeding. She is now going down with her sister for half hour periods then back for a rest, but at the moment it looks like she will make a full recovery.

 

Good luck with your sour crop girl. Plenty of water, no feed is the solution.

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Good luck with your sour crop girl. Plenty of water, no feed is the solution.

 

Gosh I was told to limit the water and no food for 24 hours then mash with water only for a few days plus she was medicated with oral thrush medicine

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Depends how bad she is Gavclojak, but flushing with water only has always worked for us and we've had over a dozen cases. The worst was when we fed Strawberries and had three in sick bay at once! If you are late spotting the problem it can develop into fungus in the crop though, which is why we clean the coops out every day.

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Stop feeding for 24-36 hours, plenty of water with poultry tonic in it, or NutriDrops. Syringe 3mls of neat ACV into her beak 2xday, no need for expensive anti-fungal meds, this will do the job.

 

Going forward, never feed soft fruit, give them an apple or two once a week, and pop some ACV in their water on alternate days. If they are gluttons, and the crop tends not to empty properly as it's too full, then take up their food after about 3 or 4pm.

 

The Nettex tonic (Vit Boost) is good as it has pre- and pro-biotics in it.

 

Mine never get blocked or sour crops, but I have treated plenty of hens with both conditions.

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Pleased to announce that after 4 ½ months the house is now sick chicken free. Charity has been eating as only piggy Orpingtons can and has finally built up enough strength to climb the coop steps and is strong enough to sleep in the temperatures outside. Sadly both her sisters died while she was away, but we have bought other Orpington hens to keep her company. Her brother is still with us, she shares his coop and is now top hen in there.

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Thanks for your replies. Unfortunately I may have spoken too soon as she was brought in at lunchtime because she looked rather tired. Good news is an hour and a small sleep later and she was crying to go out again. So perhaps we'll bring her back in at night for a while yet as a precautionary measure. Having got her this far we don't want to make any mistakes!

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