Gerard Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 A friend of mine has recently mentioned the possibility of Restrictive Covenants in the property title deeds which may prevent the keeping of 'livestock' in one's garden. Has anyone else had practical experience of this? It isn't somethng that has even occured to me and I certainly haven't seen it mentioned on the website or in any of the chicken books on the market. Cheers Gerard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louise Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 Hi Gerard I don't have any personal experience but I have a friend who lives in an ex council flat in a small town near Edinburgh and she can't keep livestock in the front garden according to her deeds but why I don't know and whether it is because it was a council estate I don't know. The house is post war so it can't be beacause of that Bit of a mystery if in doubt phone the council and ask Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motherhen Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 Sometimes covenants or restrictions are attached to Deeds. They usually refer to 'poultry' if they exist. However situation isn't as grim as it might appear I think. Firstly, I think there is a strong case that 2-4 hens (not cockerals) in an eglu which is the same nearly as the new rabbit eglu, and treated as pets (spending a fortune at the vets instead of just wringing a sick hen's neck) and not being commercial, means that our hens should be regarded as pets and not poultry. Second, someone would need to know there was a covenant on poultry, would need to know who to report it to, and would need to want to do it and know how to do it. I think this is unlikely. I did research council policies round the country and spoke to several different departments at our council. Universal opinion from them was that 2 hens counted as pets. (presumably 4 as well) This would strenghthen any case that they are pets and not poultry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheilaz Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 Good question, but not one that I would suggest asking the council about, it might open a can of worms (sorry, chooks). I've been asked a couple of times "Oh, are you allowed to, I thought there would be a covenant not allowing them?" This may apply to some houses locally that were built in the 20's/30's on land previously owned by Earl Spencer. (that wouldn't include my house, haven't checked deeds which should say, because I don't want to know now!) I just reassure them that its chickens, not a cockerel, but why do they want to know anyway? So, I'm not sure how common those restrictions are (flats would be different) but I just can't imagine why anyone would try & enforce one for a couple of chickens anyway. The only problem therefore would be a mean spirited neighbour. Not much help to you, its just that I ignore the comments & find someone else to talk to, who responds with "Chickens, how lovely!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motherhen Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 My Council checking was very comprehensive, so while I can't give any guarantees for the rest of the country, I suspect none of you need bother contacting your council. Re neighbours. Things to stress are that hens are significantly quieter than dogs, won't come into their gardens like cats, won't fly into their gardens like pet pigeons, and will supply them with occasional gifts of eggs! If smell is bought up you can tell them this is solved due to small numbers of hens and garlic. You could also offer to donate some pooey straw to really get their compost heaps going! If you have some mean-spirited neighbours then you'll just have to make the effort to 100% hen proof your boundary wall/fence/hedge to ensure said neighbours won't have a little visitor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emma Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 I live in a housing trust property and didn't bother checking about whether I could or couldn't keep chickens. I daren't look in my agreement now incase I'm not meant to have them in my garden. Lots of people have asked if I'm allowed and I just say yes My neighbours are fine about them. Infact the woman who lives 3 doors away came to tell me recently that she had a new cat and that if it came into my garden and worried my girls then I was to let her know and she'd try and stop it. I was a'chicken' myself recently though and didn't let the representative from the housing trust to come and take pics of my garden for the local garden comp this year incase she saw my girls and had them evicted. I lied and said my garden wasn't upto entering the comp this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Frugal Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Because our house is fairly new, we were given a copy of the deeds when we exchanged with the builders. I checked it minutely for restrictions and rang the council as well to check that I wouldn't be breaking any by-laws. We're fine here but I know that there are cases where chickens aren't allowed in gardens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katie Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 yes we rang the council to see if we could keep the chickens in the garden, as it said to in our book (hens in the garden eggs in the kitchen). youre definatly better double checking with the council first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popcorn Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 We didn't even think to check I'm sure we're ok, as we've only just moved and I don't recall any restrictions when I read the gumph we got from the solicitor. you won't tell anyone will you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Frugal Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 your secret's safe with us Gina ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cate in NZ Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 We've actually got a clause on our deeds that say that we can build hen houses without needing council approval or planning permission. caused great hilarity when we bought the place 8 years ago. Never actually thought that it'd have any relevance to us at all. How times and attitudes change I think that's inserted in there because our home is built on what was woodland up until the late 50's, and is surrounded by a fair bit of agricultural land. We still have a beautiful wood behind us, but in every other direction it's a built up, suburban estate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahJo Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 ... I had better go and check our deeds, as we are objecting to a planning proposal at the rear of our house .. and the planning officer and local Councillor may be coming to have a look from our veiw . Anyone want to chicken sit for a few hours ...... , I can see me having to cover the Eglu, and put the chooks in the garden as a temp measure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahJo Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Uh Oh ... just checked "No poultry or livestock (other than domestic pets) may be kept in the garden or any part of the house." Is this meaning that Ginger and Mrs Snowy should not be here .... will I fall fowl of the law , or do just 2 hens constitute domestic pets. . Anyone got dog and cat disguises for chooks ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Frugal Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Oh dear! Perhaps you can classify them as pets rather than livestock as you're not selling the eggs??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesley Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 I think a couple do count as domestic pets, and probably three. Probably best to just not say anything and only comment if asked. If you don't ask, you can't be told 'No' is how I look at things now. I used to always ask but bureaucracy has gone mad these days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahJo Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 One of the other neighbours objecting to the planning is a J.P (Justice of the peace) , and she said to send them to her 1st, then I would have time to get the chooks into the garage and if mentioned the eglu, is for rabbits not chickens, but the bunny died last week . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Frugal Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Good plan, Sarah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louise Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 They must be getting smarter when they draw these things up. I have someone at work who is moving to the village near me and he was telling me about his restrictions on the new build complex. He can have 2 cats and/or dogs and no livestock. I promptly said ah but a couple of chickens are classified as pets. He then told me that there is a specific exclusion on keeping any sort of poultry. This means if you live in a new house in my area you are not allowed to better your diet with proper eggs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steph & alex Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 hi, i'm a bit confused with this. what has the council got against chickens. is it the noise that a rooster makes or is it the fact that selling eggs could be classeed as a business. my hens will be pets that just happen to lay eggs but i'm planning eventually to have 6 & so will prob sell a few eggs to family neighbours etc. is this going to cause huge problems for me? i'm pretty sure that my neighbours (both sides) wont mind. the lady on one side is elderly & deaf, never complains & never uses the garden. the other neighbour makes birthday, wedding & other celebration cakes for a living from home so if she says anything, she can have all the eggs i have spare. i'm quite friendly with both ladies & i figured that it'll only cause problems if the council gets complaints whaddya all think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motherhen Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 From the sound of your neighbours - no problem What the council doesn't know about won't hurt them. Plus I did a very lenghthy internet search of bye-laws and other restictions for lots of councils, not just mine. Found absolutely nothing about poultry except somewhere down south beginning with B that won't allow you to graze your poultry (geese presumably) on Council parkland Don't forget that in the war lots of families kept quite large numbers of hens - one reason why older people are often so interested in eglu hens because of their childhood memories. So the only real potential problem is if there is a restictive covenant in your house deeds. Unlikely if it's a prewar house. If modern, it comes down to definition of 'poultry' vs pet hens. Things like taking them to the vet when ill rather than wringing their neck puts elgu hens firmly in the 'pet' category. Plus most people have no idea what is in their deeds and again, even in the worst case scenario of you having a covenant in your deeds, it still needs someone to want to 'shop' you and to know who to shop you to. So get your six hens and make me very jealous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popcorn Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 From the sound of your neighbours - no problem What the council doesn't know about won't hurt them. I'm glad you said that Jane, because I didn't check with my council before getting our girls. Our neighbours are fine and we regularly swop our eggs for their fruit and veg. I'm sure the council will never find out we have chickens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katie Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 The council must think that they encourage vermin for some reason. Thats probebly why on new builds in densly populated areas they have a no livestock rule. I don't know, I just thought of that now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahJo Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 Don't panic ... us in new houses which have a livestock/poultry clause(as I do) will only be investigated anyway if someone complains. . My neighbours are all , and the only concern I had was due to opposing a planning application at the rear of my property. Apparently the "Council" came round to take pics from the rear of our neighbours house on Friday ... luckily we were OUT. Even though they had no complaints, they could have turned it on us .... . Having said that ... wheres the discretionary line between 2 pet hens and a poultry flock ..... EGGSACTLY . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
