The Dogmother Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Ok, so how can cod be organic? Is it kept in a farm and surrounded by fresh spring water, poured by virgins? How on earth can they ensure that the water doesn't have chemicals and pollutants in it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 I don't know Clare.. but I wonder if they sell it here... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_yorkshire/6126476.stm the chip shop accused of smelling of fish and chips... Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted November 8, 2006 Author Share Posted November 8, 2006 But the smell of fish and chips is divine! *tuts* It's another of those 'common blooming sense' moments isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 I have been struggling with this one Clare. Only a little while ago I read that fish cannot technically be described as organic because although the sea is natural, it may not meet organic criteria. Fish was described as sea-living (or something) as opposed to being farmed. Waitrose and Tesco however now sell organic fish. I asked in Waitrose and was told that their fish is farmed and that's why they can call it organic. I have to choose between sea fish and organically farmed fish now! Waitrose assured me that they would have been 'happy' fish! (They must think I'm really weird! ) I'm not totally convinced by this though and on balance I think I would buy natural sea-living fish (line-caught) rather than organically farmed fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard T Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 As my father would say (but not me because I NEVER sound like my father ), "It is the piece of cod which passeth all understanding." Richard T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Groan! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted November 8, 2006 Author Share Posted November 8, 2006 I had a real quandary moment like that too Ginette - they were selling organic cod on the reduced shelf in Tesco last week, so I thought I'd try it out; it was very tasty in the fish pie that I made. But I'm not sure on its ethical credentials - I'm not being an evangelist here - just curious. Methinks they're hitching their wagon to the 'organic star' It had some sticker on it saying 'as seen on the F Word', which of course gave it no cred at all in my view as I don't watch much telly and can't stand Gordon Ramsay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 And the news this week is that there'll be no fish left at all by 2050! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jools Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 As a fish eating veggie (I know that means I'm not a real veggie, but it describes what I eat!!), I find the whole fish question really difficult. John Humphries has written a really good book and fish farming is covered in there (along with lots of other environmental stuff). I won't buy farmed salmon because of the pollution caused by the method of production. It takes x times more wild fish to feed the farmed salmon, because they're fed food with added ingredients I don't want to eat, because of the pests and diseases now spreading to the wild salmon population etc etc. Wild salmon is as rare as hens teeth (but totally gorgeous if you can get it), so I do buy organically farmed salmon. They are still caged, but at lower densities, in tidal waters and with none of the nasty additives / antibiotics / pesticides etc, and much reduced pollution problems. Cod stocks are at an all time low because of overfishing (maybe even to feed the farmed salmon??). Organic cod farming has been pioneered off the Scottish Islands I believe and because they use the offcuts / waste from other sources, no additional fish are caught to feed the cod. So from an ethical point of view, you could say that farmed cod was more environmentally friendly (and maybe even cod friendly??) than wild cod. It's still early days though. Line fishing comes with another dilemma for me. I love tuna (dolphin friendly of course), but it isn't albatross friendly. They dive to catch the tuna bait on the lines, get caught and drown. Guess who's just given up tuna. Then there are the enviromental disasters of scallop dredging our sea beds and prawn farming (Indonisia I think, but don't quote me). Sometimes it's a whole lot easier to bury my head in the sand and not think or read too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Thank you for that Jools. You've expressed clearly what I sort of know but wasn't confident enough of the facts to put into words. I too am a fish-eating vegetarian, mainly because vegetarian meals take so much preparation and sometimes it's nice to have the same as everyone else with fish replacing the meat. Like you, if I thought about it too much, I wouldn't eat it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesley-Jean Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Have a look here: http://www.graigfarm.co.uk/fishcod.htm This might give some insight into the issues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jools Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Thanks for that link Lesley-Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocchick Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Waitrose assured me that they would have been 'happy' fish! How can you tell? It's like the old Tesco adverts with the "sullen" fish with its mouth turned down, which she exchanged for a "happier" fish. You can just see the shop assistant, thinking, oh no-what do we tell [Ginette] I know it's a happy fish.... I'm not sure I'm brave enough to start thinking about fish yet as I'm only ready to start thinking about the River Cottage thread and meat, without losing more food groups.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Well I trust Waitrose more than I ever would Tesco, so that's a start I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 I usually get my salmon and sea fish from M&S who sell Wild caught salmon etc (although now I will have to consider all sorts of things like Albatros ) I always go for wild stuff rather than farmed even if it's organically farmed although if pushed I would go for the organic. Some of the wild, eco caught stuff is expensive but it just means we eat it a little less often. I tend to stick mostly to locally caught fish which has the bonus of being nice and cheap too - I'm lucky in that regard because I can pop along to one of the harbours and wait for the fishing boats to come in and get my fish/crabs straight from the boat. In summer I go out on my neighbour's boat sometimes and catch my own mackeral and stick it in the freezer - it's lovely - much nicer than any shop bought stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazaddress Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 I think I would prefer farmed fish to sea fish. the fish stocks in the sea are in depleting fast http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6108414.stm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted November 9, 2006 Author Share Posted November 9, 2006 Oh Red, you going down to the harbour reminded me of my times in Devon... When i lived in London, the lads in the flat above me used to go fishing, and I'd often come home from work to find a bin liner of fish in the sink ready to be gutted and scaled - what a luxurious diet I had then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 I agree Kaza but I am careful about which fish I eat and where they have come from. If everyone were more careful the stocks would not be so bad. I haven't eaten cod for a long time now because of the stocks. If we ever go to the chippy I always get something different - never cod. I can't remember what the figures are but if we all stopped eating cod for a (relatively) short period the stocks would improve. Experts have been recommending a ban on cod fishing for the past 5 years or so but European ministers have always poo-pood the recommendation. So I've carried out my own no-cod policy and I've only eaten cod about 3 times in the last 3 - 4 years for this reason. I'm lucky cos of where I live, so I can easily go and get sea fish which are caught in an ecologically sustainable way and which are in a plentiful supply in our local waters. The main problems are fishing methods which destroy biodiversity in sea and coastal areas - like bottom trawling. It's like everything else where we all need to take responsibility for recognising that you can't have an unlimited supply of living animals that have had a good life. If you want mass produced, cheap meat or fish then something will have to give - and it's usually animal welfare/biodiversity - but I know I'm preaching to the converted here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Oh Red, you going down to the harbour reminded me of my times in Devon... I had my wedding reception in the pub by the harbour at Clovelly and in my wedding pics there are some nice shots of me on the harbour wall next to the lobster pots I was just watching River Cottage Tratement and can recommend a spot of mackeral fishing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted November 9, 2006 Author Share Posted November 9, 2006 I know that same spot Red! I used to go down there a lot, firstly as a child on family holidays, then with a boyfriend, who taught sailing at Salcombe, then latterly with Rosie. I'd like to end up in Devon or Cornwall whe I retire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 It's literally just down the road from me Clare - and I don't take it for granted either - there's nothing like bobbing about on the sea on a balmy summer's day and then mooring up and climbing up the rickety wooden ladder to the harbour wall for a nice pint or a glass of wine - it hasn't changed for years there either - you can still listen to good sea shanty too if that's your bag. Our wedding was not last Saturday but the Saturday before and there was a lovely sea mist hanging in the harbour - it made for some great pictures - AND to make things really memorable for us and our guests we had a nice little display from a trio of porpoise and a seal - they came right up to the cobbled beach within just yards of the shoreline. It was so special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
