fluffyfeet Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Hi all OH was at the plumbers merchants today and overheard a conversation between a couple of Central heating engineers that I thought I should pass on. They were commenting that they were making a fortune at the moment because the weather has been causing pipes connected to the boiler (not sure which) to freeze. Panicked homeowner calls CH engineer who charge £180 call out and then £80 labour, and all they actually do is use a heatgun on the pipe for less than half an hour and Bob's your Aunty Flo, that'll be £260 thank you very much. Now I am unsure of which pipe/s they were talking about and I'm not telling folks to point heatguns at their boiler pipework, but if this were to happen to me I would be inclined to have a go with a hairdryer (not too fierce) if I could identify which pipe it was, before calling in the (so called) experts. Another thing I have also been told by someone who is VERY careful with their spondoolicks, is that it is more economical to leave your central heating on low constantly rather than having it fire up 3 or 4 times during the day. A friend has tried this out and reckons it's true so I thought I'd pass this on as possibly useful info. Keep warm and safe. Dawn x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellekatz Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 We have had this problem but it was still under warranty. Basically the bit where the condensing stuff comes out of the house to drain outside has been freezing and the boiler then backs up and cuts out. OH has been up a ladder many times this week to pour warm water at the point the pipe exits the house and you can hear the icicle break off and disappear down the pipe. The boiler is fine after that. We have lagged the pipe and i ended up covering it with VetBed last night as well and it has gone 20 hours now without defrosting. I would say a blow torch is a bit extreme, warm water works just as well as the pipes are plastic!!! Funnily enough I saw a bit on the BBC website today that says alot of frozen outdoors pipes are because of Cavity Wall insulation - back in the 1960s they wouldnt have happened but now our homes are so well insulated that very little heat escapes to keep the pipes ice free We did run out boiler a lot lower last night rather than turn it off and it didnt go off in the night - OH says that the lower it runs, the less condensate there is and the less there is to freeze. ( he is a scientist - i believe him ) Hope this hepls anyone else with a condenser boiler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missuscluck Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 This is true as this has happened to me in the last few days and also to a few of my friends. My boiler is upstairs in the airing cupbord and the pipe work to drain the condensate travels outside and down the outside wall into the drain. Therfore it was to high for me to hairdyer it and at the time I really wasnt sure what was up tbh. I rang my plumber and he came out to me yesterday. My problems were a combination of a blocked filter and frozen pipe. Our pipe is too small and unlagged and has a couple of turns in it which are vulnerable to frost. He unblocked the filter and defrosted the pipe and stupidly between us we didnt account for the fact it would just freeze up again. Last night it went off again so mrcluck went hairing off the B and Q to get some lagging but they have sold out :roll:we tried to defrost it and lag it with blankets etc but to no avail so it was a freezing night for us. My plumber came back today and just cut the whole pipe off and repaired a split pipe inside caused by the sheer effort of trying to work and is comming back in two weeks to re route the pipe inside to the bath overflow to prevent this happening again. Total cost so far £90 but I am warm now My friends have theirs on ground level so have cut the pipe off themselves and put a bucket under. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnamon Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Re the leaving the boiler or heating on constant & low. It is indeed far more economical, Hubby is a builder & plumber ,& we have always done this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizinsa Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Thank you so much for the heads up! I am currently wearing a 3 layers of clothes and under a duvet because our condenser boiler stopped working last night There is currently debate about if it is a fault with the pilot light or pipes, I don't mind which it is as long as I can have heating and hot water! My problem is I live on the 4th floor so thawing the pipes will be tricky, will see what happens tomorrow, but will definitely mention this to my landlord! PS This is the reason I love the Omlet forum, such a good sources of information Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Definitely the outside pipes. I had this happen to my boiler last year.....even though I have a resident plumber. Get some of that grey spongy lagging from B&Q and apply it with cable ties. ( You'll need a long ladder lizinsa!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellekatz Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Get some of that grey spongy lagging from B&Q and apply it with cable ties. ( You'll need a long ladder lizinsa!) We have tried that but it hasnt really worked - mind you - they are exceptionally low night time temperatures round here at the moment I am sure it will be better when it warms up a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesley Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 I wrap all outside pipes in bubble wrap - it works really well. We keep the heating on low all the time as well as it uses less gas. If the underfloor heating is left too long it becomes too cold and then takes a couple of days to heat up again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macsandy Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 We had a new condensing boiler fitted 4 weeks ago. I did query the pipe going outside but BGas answer was it had to be there! Anyway the boiler started dripping last night, where the pipe joins from outside. Inspecting the pipe work it is not even fitted well, it is squint which makes for a bad join anyway. Hubby has defrosted outside pipe and is currently lagging it. My query is re the post stating turn the boiler down - do you mean the actual settings on the boiler (low to high), to turn this down from high? or is it just referring to turning the thermostat down. We keep our heating on 24 hours and just control via the thermostat - over the years this has proven the most efficient. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesley Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 We use the boiler heating temp setting as well as the room stat - it just ticks over most of the time and we light the woodburner in the evening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurmurf Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 HURRAY FOR OMLETEERS! you are all amazing, thank you to fluffyfeet for starting this and all others who contributed! we woke up this morning to a freezing house and a British Gas service plan that isn't worth the paper it's written on (no one answering the 'emergency' number and being rerouted to a 'this line cannot accept incoming calls message'). I've been researching and trying to get to the bottom of the problem and i don't know why i didn't just come on here first! OH has gone off to borrow a long ladder (our pipe outlet is in the loft eaves) and i'm boiling the kettle - fingers crossed this will work for us, thanks to you! On the issue of temp, our system is 'on' all the time with the night time temp set for 8 degrees.... too low to keep it ticking over? I am so delighted to have such great support on so many different issues - you are all the absolute BEST! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macsandy Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 The gas engineer told me the boiler should be set on high to maintain a good 'flow' and effecient working of the system. Anyone know better?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules. Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 Thanks for this info, my parents have just had a condensing boiler fitted with a long outside drainage pipe so this will be very useful to them. I very often quote the Omlet forum to them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachick Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 We have oil heating and our boiler went into "lockout" yesterday afternoon. Spoke to our heating engineer who advised pouring boiling water over the exposed pipes, which worked (after 11 kettles full!!!) But then woke up in the night in freezing cold to find we were on "lockout" again. Have spent hours this morning with the hairdryer and kettle but all to no avail...... we're all currently wrapped in our duvets in front of the open fire. Doesn't look like temperatures are going to be above -6 here today but can't face going out there again...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missuscluck Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 Our no pipe at all method seems to be working really well. We have a very large ice patch formed on the outside wall under the chopped off end but as long as the heating is working who cares. We will sort the pipe out in a couple of weeks. TBH it seems to be working better than ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucky Mama Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 My neighbours have a new condensing boiler and I gave them the info this morning. Thanks for the tip as it appears that theirs may have been freezing up too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macsandy Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 We fully lagged outside pipe yesterday (after defrosting) and all day and evening all was well. This morning the worktop below the boiler is flooded. Hubby has checked all the seals of the waste pipe. As soon as we put the heating on it starts pouring out. The engineer is due on Tuesday (boiler only 4 weeeks old) but I cannot be without heat and water till then. Ok to just let it leak??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike48 Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 I had a freeze-up caused by the gas boiler's installers not lagging the outside pipe. I used some boiling water on it but it still would not ignite. I then turned the temperature dial on the boiler back to 'reset' and then back to the temperture setting and the boiler ignited. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester_H Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 Hi We had same problem last year - so knew what to do this year. Our condensate pipe exits he back wall of teh house, travels about 2m (lagged) at a slight slope into the main gutter down pipe (unlagged). It seems that as the boiler produces only a trickle, when it exits the lagged pipe it easily freezes (a constant flow of water would probably be OK). Once ice is formed, it escalates. OH wants to try to move the pipe so that its all inside the house and joins an internal downpipe (somehow). Does anyone have this kind of arrangement ? or does everybodys join an outside downpipe eventually. Thanks, H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macsandy Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 If we cut our outside pipe, as it has a long run with a final horizontal part, will we damage our warranty? It is only 4 weeks old? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester_H Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 If we cut our outside pipe, as it has a long run with a final horizontal part, will we damage our warranty? It is only 4 weeks old? Our Boiler warrenty only covers boiler (as we found out) - not exteral installation. If yours covers 'evrything' I would say yes. H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Palmer Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 We have a standard boiler, which decided to pack in on Friday. We've had a British Gas Homecare agreement for 9 years and although they've been very good when we've needed them, it was going to be nearly £450 to renew this year. It's gone up and up and we decided the odd one off breakdown would outweigh years of paying this. It was due to be renewed on the 6th, we cancelled on the 4th and the boiler broke down on the 8th! As laurmurf said - they are impossible to get hold of when the weather's cold and if you aren't priority - old or have someone with a disability, you aren't top of the list. Last time they took 2 days to come out and 3-4 days to get the part. I tried to cancel by phone, but after several tries and spending 27 mins on hold the last time, I lost the will to live and cancelled by letter instead. However, just before cancelling, we found out that someone we knew who's a builder also does plumbing, so when it went, we called him Friday evening and he came Saturday morning. The fan's gone on the boiler, so if the part comes in (weather dependent) it'll be sorted on Tuesday. He told us about this problem with condensing boilers and how it was causing a lot of problems for his customers. So it was interesting to read this thread. He said that when he fits them he tries to run the pipe through the house to the nearest outflow (eg kitchen sink), if at all possible, so as to avoid this problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester_H Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 £450 to renew this year. !!!! When we had new Wocester Bosch Condensing Boiler, it camewith 3 year warrenty - but for £260 we could have 5 year warrenty provided that we let them service it at the end of years 1,2,3 and 4 (included in the £260). Seemed a good deal to us. Their service dept is good and last year when we called them out they came the next day - would recommend them. Our problem is external pipe (which, quite reasonably, is covered by boiler warrenty) H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macsandy Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 The problem is our external pipework has been fitted badly and no sooner than we get it defrosted, due to the horizontal length and 2 other elbow joints it freezes so back to square one ane leaking all over worktop under boiler? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester_H Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 The problem is our external pipework has been fitted badly and no sooner than we get it defrosted, due to the horizontal length and 2 other elbow joints it freezes so back to square one ane leaking all over worktop under boiler? I'd get teh installer back - its only 4 weeks. H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
