Cube Mark One Run

[Leicester_H]

Yesterday(Sat) afternoon I noticed Lily was not her normal self and I quickly became concerned that she was quite ill - phoned usual vet - got answerphone (as out of hours) referring us to PDSA - phoned - told to go straight there.

 

We knew Lily had laid on Mon, Tues, wed & thurs but had only had one egg for the 2 hens on Fri & sat - so she may or may not have laid.

 

Saw vet who seemed to have no idea about chickens. I asked about being egg bound and he said she was definitely NOT egg bound (he could feel no eggs) but could not explain symptoms (hunched, very docile, oozing from vent). So he prescribed Baytril (cost overall £60!)

 

Just as we were about to drive off, she passed a thin shelled egg that broke on floor of carry box. Went back in. He said to give Baytril as planned. By the time we got home (30 mins) she had passed another proper egg and had perked up considerably. Her vent had been quite distorted - with hindsight this must have been due to the 2 eggs - it now looks normal.

 

So I have decided NOT to givethe Bayril - anyone think I should ?

 

I have seperated her from Smokie (in dog crate at end of run so she can see her - only 6 inches away as seperation was distressing them both (and us!!)) so I can tell who has laid what. I was hoping she'd lay today but I guess her insides are a bit messed up at present.

 

They have the best organic layer pellets, free access to grit (which they do seem to be eating a LOT of at present).

 

I have read the Egluntine article on what to do if you think your hen is egg bound - does anyone else have any advice in this specific case ??

 

Thanks in advance, H

Edited July 11, 2010 by Guest

[Space Chick]

I would cut back on treats and keep a close eye on her. The fact that she laid a softie followed by a hard egg, it could just be a blip and normal service will be resumed.

[Leicester_H]

yes - I hope it was a blip - see seems fine now - except for complaining that she's in a separate area.

 

I was a bit dissapointed with paying £60 for the vet when he seemed to know less than I did and was wrong ! (I'm looking on it as a donation to the PDSA rather than a vet bill!)

 

I just wondered if there were any other tell tale signs to watch for. She seems fine today and I expect it to take 24/48 hours for her to get back to normal (and they typically only lay about 5 days a week anyway - so missing a day is not unusual) - I'll just feel happier when she's back into the routine.

 

Shes only about a year old but I wouldn't really mind if she never laid again - as long as she's healthy

 

H

[Redwing]

It does sound like a blip

 

I think I would be inclined to give the baytril in case of any infection or ruptures inside - It doesnt sound like there are any but it wont do her any harm (there is an egg withdrawl time though)

 

A breeder that I go to quite often is convinced that there is a link between organic pellets and laying problems - not sure how true that is though!

[Plum]

I've had one lay a couple of eggs and she was fine afterwards. Personally and I'm probably not allowed to say this but I wouldn't give the baytril but keep it for when it really was needed.

 

Guess vet was a bit pricey because it's a weekend.

[Leicester_H]

yes - I've read giving antibiotics weakens their immune system for a while so sometimes they succumb to trivial things.

So I was waiting to see if she needs it - she seems fine at present.

 

(When Smokie had to have Baytril for a nasty wound, Vet said withdrawl period was 28 days after last dose - since I can't tell eggs apart I would have to throw both their eggs away fro 5 weeks - so don't want to - unless its necessary)

 

I've put it in the fridge as I assume it will keep better. Don't know how long it lasts ? (but at £15 I'll keep it for a while).

Thanks, H

[sandyhas3chucks]

There is often confusion over grit.

Grit is for grinding food in the gizzard. Mixed grit contains oyster shell pieces (sometimes)

Oyster shell is providing extra calcium.

You can buy crushed oyster shell (calcium) and either have separate cups or mix with grit and have always available.

 

I understand the heat can sometimes upset them.

Yes I would feel aggrieved especially as he/she said

there were no eggs, they should def have been able to feel them if they were laid so quickly .

In fact as it was the PDSA I would feel inclined to write a letter.

[Leicester_H]

Hi

Thanks sandyhas3chucks

I've started using the Zolcal D in thier water again and have spinkled limestone flour in their pellets.

I assume this is a good idea and can't do any harm ?

 

Lily was in the nesting box when I left for work today, and OH is under instruction to call me when she has laid an egg (fingers crossed).

 

I did wonder about emailing the PDSA as I felt that if they didn't know 'anything'/much about chickens they should have told us this on the phone. I thought that the vet should have been able to feel TWO eggs. Also, with hind sight (I am NOT a vet and so didn't know then) the shape of her rear end and protruding vent was a clear sign.

 

How easy is it to feel an egg inside a chicken - would I be able to ??

 

As she laid one egg before we even left the car park, we returned and asked if we should still go ahead with anti-biotics and he said yes. Since she laid the second (perfect) egg before we got home (not sure exactly when but journey was 30 mins) I was convinced this was the problem (and she was much perkier) and so decided not to give antibiotics.

 

I know chickens are 'unusual' but more and more people are keeping them as pets and vets are supposed to be able to treat 'all' (within reason) animals not just cats and dogs.

 

At £45 for consultation (it was out of hours - Sat 6pm - but they are open 24 hours - so staff are all there anyway) plus £15 for unnecessary Baytril I wasn't entirely happy with the quality of the advice.

 

What do others think ? Should I email PDSA, not complaining but expressing dissapointment with level of professional advice ?

 

H

[Chucky Mama]

Hazel, I would only give one type of calcium supplement. I would be inclined to stick with Zolcal D as it gives calcium and vitamin D in the correct ratios. With a sensitive hand it is possible to detect an egg, obviously a wee bit more tricky with a shell less egg. A good bumping around in the back of a car often gets things moving. Many a dog unable to give birth delivers in the car on the way to the surgery . Whilst vets should not take back or re sell anti biotics or indeed any medication once it has left the surgery as they cannot guarantee the safe storage, lack of conatamination or tampering, you could perhaps ask if you can be refunded for the Baytril as a gesture of goodwill. Having said that the PDSA is a charity and this would be a loss for them.

[The Dogmother]

Usually if a hen is egg bound, and chicken-savvy vet would give a calcium injection to stimulate contractions and help it to lay the egg. If the egg is visible, then it lubricating it will usually help it out.

 

I've never had the need for antibiotics in either of these cases, but any vet who is unsure about any treatments for chickens seems to recommend antibiotics routinely.

 

I'd phone around vets in your area and see if you can find one who knows something about chickens.

[Leicester_H]

I'd phone around vets in your area and see if you can find one who knows something about chickens.

A practice nearer to us has 2 vets - one seems to know about chickens.

Problem was it was Sat 6pm - out of normal hours (Lily looked VERY poorly) and I thought any vet would be better than no vet. I would have felt so guilty if she had died and I hadn't done the best I could.

Chickens - who'd have them ? Once you have them - can't live with them - can't live without them !!

 

H

[The Dogmother]

Aaah, I see, just luck of the draw then.

 

Going by what people have posted in the past, they are either very good with chickens, or know nowt at all.

[Redwing]

I agree, its the luck of the draw with the vet sadly, if it was a dog then I would have said that the vet should be able to accurately diagnose but not with a chicken and as we know chickens hide their pain and suffering quite well and just generally look hunched and down when ill which doesnt help a vet pinpoint the problem

 

Extra calcium is no good if the chicken cant absorb it, a splash of cod liver oil combined with the limestone flour or shells should do the trick then graduate to Zocal D if you have to. Too much calcium is as bad as not enough