Warm boot recommendations please

[Annabel]

Hi,

Our neighbours have three dogs which are all hunting dogs (trained to bring back prey shot by the neighbours).  In the last two years, their same female Springer Spaniel has jumped the dry stone wall and attacked our chickens.

First time - cockerel stood and fought, all hens made it back, cockerel had feather ripped out and was bleedring profusely, kept falling over but survived.  Neighbours said they didn't want the expense of a fence as they woud be moving in three years.  Said dog would never break skin as trained to retrieve prey without breaking skin (despite cockerel bleeding and missing feathers and skin).  Cockerel survived.  We left it at that.

Second time (1 year later) - Same dog jumped wall and attacked all chickens.  One had heart attack and died, other was so badly eaten that back looked like a chicken breast in supermarket.  After intensive treatment by my husband and I, hen survived and eventually refeathered and is laying. Neighbours said they would keep dog in at all times as being a dog owner means you 'have to be responsible' so she will never be let out again.  Refused to pay for fence as they will be moving in three years (this is not a family without  means as they own various properties around the village including the pub).  We pay £400 ourselves to get fence errected at the jump site.

Third time (1 year later) - this evening, dog somehow enters garden.  Attacks chickens in their open coop, dragging 8 week old chick from its roosting bar- badly bites chick cockerel who is bleeding and hobbling.  Caught dog early on in attack and managed to pin it down (was unresponsive to commands to stop etc and I was worried it would bite me).  Managed to put lead on.

Owner comes round to collect dog says 'I know sorry probably won't mean much to you'.  I remind her that this is now the third time and I was promised the last time that their dog would not be free in the garden and she said that the dog was only free for a second and that she isn't sure how the dog got in given the fence we errected.  I pointed out potential area of weakness and ask her to errect a fence along the length of her garden and she said the area it too expansive and again apologises and leaves.

What do you think we should do?

[DanTheChickenMan]

Threaten them that you will shoot the dog.  Owner will know if a dog worries livestock in someone else's property you can shoot it.  They will know that as being hunters.  Not suggesting you should ever do that but...

[Empress7]

I really hate this sly irresponsible dog owners. I am. Right now in Oxleas Wood, Greenwich, London. 

I NEED HELP, IF ANYONE IS LIVING IN SE LONDON, TO HELP ME FOR A LOOKOUT

Trying to find a misaing rare breed bantam Groninger, 3 months old. I have 4 chickos and 3 of them are cockerel, including one bantam cockerel which is missing. 

They are our pets, they follows, sit in the car, go on road trips with us, every morning i take them out for a walk on the street. Earlier tonight, i took them to SEVERNDROOG CASTLE, on Shooters hill road. 

One sly old couple with a dog, saw our chickens, for far, we advised him to keep his dog on the leash,, he laughed and encouraged his dog to chase the chicken, he tried chasing the leader of the flock, he escaped easily and didnt bothered by the dog, the missing bantam was chased by him so i stop the dog with a stick and meanwhile My white bantam, slipped and hid some where. 

This has happened twice. I am right noW alone in the woods, trying to find him, sPENd all night, waiting for dawn, so he can crow. 

 

I am not going anywhere until i find him :((( or his feathers. 

[Beantree]

it's a sad situation but I don't think threats are a good idea, especially if you do have a shotgun, because you may in that case lose your licence.

What concerns me is if a dog can get to your chickens, so can a fox. You could lose them all at any time even if the dog is kept away. I've seen a fox jump a 5' fence with ease, in fact it was a good foot clear of the top.

[Annabel]

Yes, that was the point the neighbours made saying that although it was their dog on this occassion, it could have been a fox.  My chickens free range for most of the day, along with our dog who sits out with them in the garden.  I believe this is why we haven't had a fox attack in the 4 years we have had them (fox smelling the dog) but obv our dog is no detterent for other dogs.

This neighbour's dog also jumped the wall on the other side killing another neighbours 5 bantams last year.

I really don't want to keep the chickens contained in their run as it also isn't big enough to entertain them (we have perches at different heights and toys etc but they pace waiting to be let out).  What is annoying is that I do feel it is just this dog that is causing the problem.  Had we had a fox attack, I would think differently but I haven't had a fox enter the garden before.

The other thing is that even if I am out in the garden with the chickens as I was yesterday, they were still attacked as the dog ran through my legs as I was trying to grab at its collar, in its desire to catch my chickens.  Didn't pay any attention to me screaming or grabbing at it at all.  It is also unable to be let off the lead when on walks as although the hunting family say she is 'highly trained', she has no recall.  They even hit her hard and you can hear her yelping when they are disciplining her and she still pays no attention to them when shes on her killing frenzy.  

[Beantree]

We have a hunting dog that goes deaf to commands when hunting, which is probably why she was left tied to the letterbox at a nearby dog sanctuary. We can't let her off the lead either, because she just runs off following scent. She doesn't scare the local foxes because I've seen them near the fence; the electric fencing keeps them out. She's very good with the chickens though and won't let anyone near them or us, which at our age is a big plus. Perhaps get some netting and put it around the chickens area. Doesn't have to be electrified because having no clear top line I doubt the dog will jump it. We buy 25m nets here for €80 (bit short to create a decent run) but have to say our Omlet net is better. You can move the net around periodically to give them a different area to scratch about in.

We had chickens for four years before a series of fox attacks happened, but as you say it is likely (but not certain) that your dog or the neighbours' dog is keeping them away.

[Annabel]

That is a good idea.  We do have loads of Omlet netting which I used to confine the chickens in spring so they don't scratch out my tuilips.  I could start doing that and hope for the best.  But I feel I am coming round to the idea of investing in a larger run and keeping them confined because I really don't feel I can cope with another one of these attacks as it is just so emotional dealing with injuries.

Then I could perhaps let them out round the garden just a few times a week rather than from 7a.m-7pm every day and therefore limit even further the possibility of this ever happening again.

[Beantree]

Chickens, like humans, are creatures of routine. You either let them out every day or not at all. Now letting them out could just be for 15 minutes as they have no sense of time, but they do know if they haven't been out, they get very stressed and with a depressed immune system resulting from that, ill. Sure you will work a routine out.

[mullethunter]

Go to the police

[Annabel]

On 8/24/2022 at 9:07 PM, mullethunter said:

Go to the police

I am tempted to be honest but I don't really want to cause a neighbourly dispute. Two years ago they caught a magpie in a larson cage and it was directly outside our window so we saw it slowly deteriorate for 2 weeks.  My husband phoned the RSPCA but apparently it is legal if they provide food and water (which they did).  In the end it was in such a poor state, it fell off its perch and was rolling around upside down on the ground.  My husband went round and said that he can't in his conscience put up with it anymore and please could we have it to try and nurse it back to health as it had affected us seeing its deterioration.

They gave it to us but asked us to release it over 3 miles away if it survived.  As they were putting it in a bag the lady said 'You know we're not going to stop doing this just because you have a problem with it'.  Anyway, it died and from then on if I have lit a bonfire (I've lit 1 a year and two in lockdown), they complained to us.  They even complained about the smoke from me cooking 4 sausages on a tiny disposable ASDA BBQ as they thought it was a bonfire.

So I think I'd be keen to try and keep the police out.  I am tempted to say that I have bought an air rifle to protect the flock from any predators as I cannot control your dog or stop it when it attacks- they may then think more carefully about keeping the dog tethered or inside as they had promised they would do.

I don't want to be petty but my flock can't protect themselves and I can't stop the dog easily.  The damage it did in less than 30 secs was astounding.

[Annabel]

Sadly we had to have Harry our chicken put down this morning as the vet said that the bite had gone right through to his abdomen.

It was so sad- he was only born in July. 

Before the vets I decided to go over to the neighbours to tell them we were having to take him to the vets which they said they would pay up to £300 for his treatment.  When I showed the photo of the damage their dog had done, the lady just said 'Ok' in a tone of 'Yep, I can see'.

I again asked them to errect a fence and they said that they think even one 10ft high wouldn't stop their dog now they know chickens are there.  The day before my husband had spoken to her husband and he had become wuite rude with my husband saying 'Look we're not putting a fence up, ok'.

They then asked if my chickens could not be let out until 9.30 in the morning to give their dog run of their garden.  I then said I am concerned the dog will jump the wall again and terriorise them as even though they are in a cage at that point, chickens do have heart attacks quite easily.  She then said that they had already been letting their dog run in the garden in the mornings (even though after the second attack they had promised me that the dog would never be let out to free run again).

I'm really quite annoyed about all this.  Not at one point on my visit this morning, did she say sorry (even my 8 year old daughter was with me whose chicken it was asked why she didn't sound sad).

I also read that is is apparently illegal to have a dog that's uncontrolable running in other people's gardens.  I honestly thought it was going to bite me when it was attacking the chicken and I was grabbing it's collar.  I've told the children if it gets in again, even if it is attacking the chickens not to go near it.

Feel really sad about the whole thing.  I should be able to use my garden as I like, letting my chickens out when I like and not having this uncontrollable dog from next door potentially springing over the wall.

[soapdragon]

Go to the police - I know you said that you didn't want to but, IMHO, your neighbours have left you no cholce. I can't imagine how stressfull this must be for you all let alone the poor chickens.

[Beantree]

I totally agee with Soapdragon, go to the Police and report a dangerous dog. Take all your previous evidence with you, so previous incidences. Show that you have bent over backwards to give them a chance to resolve the problem but they have done absolutely nothing in response. The situation is clearly not going to be resolved because your neighbours are just absolutely horrible people. You have my sympathies. We moved to France to escape this type of neighbour, but more space still isn't a guarantee. We've been lucky here: plenty of reports of exactly the opposite.

[mullethunter]

I reiterate my original comment and agree with Soapdragon and Beantree. It sounds like you have a pretty awful relationship with them already anyway and they don’t sound like very nice people.

Im sorry to hear you hen didn’t make it - I lost one to a dog attack 2 years ago in a very similar situation - it’s heartbreaking.

[Annabel]

Thank you everyone for your support.  It is such a shame we are next door to them and their general approach to not understanding chickens are our pets.  In the attack last year, my husband very angrily said to them to keep their dog in their own garden and we don't want to see it again.

The man neighbour then said 'well tell your cat to stay out of our garden too' (they have almost an acre!).  My husband then said our cat isn't a leopard who tears your dogs apart every time it visits.

I'll have a good think on what to do.  I feel so sorry I've lost Harry tonight but glad he's not in any pain now.

[Daphne]

Annabel, I am sorry, I couldn't post yesterday as I felt so sad and angry on your behalf, especially as I guess Harry was one of the chicks you posted about.  Anyway, my sense is/was that you should collate all your evidence, pictures are much stronger than verbal recollection, and research what laws/by-laws you may have on your side (although I suspect there aren't many, can only think of dangerous dogs), just so you are ready if you want to do something either now or in the future.  Personally I am another person who would tell the police, or at the very least the community police (can't remember what they are called, or even do they still exist?); your neighbours sound like unpleasant people with unpleasant attitudes to animal welfare, they also sound like bullies.  Sometimes bullies respond to somebody in authority, who might give them a stern warning if nothing else.  I might also look into civil due process via a solicitor, not because you will necessarily follow through, but in case something else happens you would be in a position to proceed swiftly, if you wanted to.  Should this happen again, I don't know if there are any local avenues open to you, maybe via local online or other networks, to exert some kind of moral pressure, especially as you are local celebrities (or national ones!) with your eggs.  Also, can you do anything else to the fence, either heighten it or do something to the top to prevent it being used as a launch pad by the dog, it has to be more important now to prevent access even if the neighbours refuse to engage.  I can understand your natural instinct is to try to negotiate your way through, but it seems to me that your neighbours just aren't listening.  I am just musing, no need to reply, and once again,  I am sorry.  RIP Harry.

[Luvachicken]

This is a terrible story to read and I am so sorry that Harry didn't make it.

You and your chickens have suffered enormous stress.

I can't understand how your neighbours are just so horrible.

Could your neighbours put a muzzle on their dog? Although it won't stop it jumping the fence it would stop it attacking your chickens.

Or, could your neighbours put that spikey stuff along the top of the fence?