Single hen

[Lesley]

In the news today - should the England football team use Land of Hope and Glory as their National song?

 

I'm quite happy for God Save the Queen to be used for any sport where the team is British but not if it is an English team.

 

The Scots, Irish and Welsh all have National songs which they can sing with pride - why not England? - be it Land of Hope.... or something else.

[Louise]

I prefer Land of hope and Glory Lesley I am an Elgar fan anyway

 

It was like at the Commonwealth games when Scotland won they didn't play Flower of Scotland and there was uproar up here neither song is official but people got really put out

[Mrs Frugal]

I love Land of Hope and Glory! It's so rousing and would be wonderful for the England team. God Save The Queen should surely be for Britain rather than England. I also love Jerusalem .

[Guest]

The Scots, Irish and Welsh all have National songs which they can sing with pride - why not England?

 

I agree entirely with you here Lesley. We English don't seem able to have an identity of our own. I understand Scots, Welsh and Irish being annoyed when they are all lumped together as English when people really mean British. I hope they can understand that we want to be English in the same way as they are Scottish/Welsh/Irish.

 

What to have as our national song though - I don't know! I'd have to ask what other British nationalities felt. Do they feel an allegiance to this song too?

[Guest]

Jerusalem is a good idea Kate!

 

'until Jerusalem is builded here in England's green and pleasant land'

 

Music by Parry, a contemporary of Elgar and still English!

[Lesley]

The 'statistics' say that apparently, two thirds of scottish people would support the English should they get to the final!

 

I can understand that Scots/Irish/Welsh are annoyed about being lumped in as English - British yes, but English no.

 

I think all four nations should have their own individual anthem and be allowed to be patriotic about their country of birth - if they want to be.

[Louise]

Sorry to disappoint Lesley but the official Scotland support is for something bizarre like Western samoa as there are more members of the scottish football assosiation playing for that country

 

I have probably got the nation wrong but it is one of the African ones I think

 

I couldn't care less who wins I don't like football

[Lesley]

I don't care for football either

 

I did say 'statistics' - this was from the BBC Breakfast prog. this morning.

[Night Nurse]

Much as I love the music of Elgar, I find the lyrics to Land of Hope etc a bit supremacist - all that 'wider still and wider' stuff smacks just a tad of colonialism to me.......

 

Jerusalem would be lovely, although the title may cause some confusion abroad....also, it's technically a lot more difficult to play than our current National Anthem which can be easily performed by a scratch band on a Sunday afternoon in the park......

 

There'll Always Be an England?.......well, that's not saying much - there'll always be a Sahara desert unless someone goes and floods it....

 

How about I vow to Thee My Country?....(Music - Holst)

[Guest]

I prefer God Save The Queen - Sex Pistols version.

 

Andy - I Vow To Thee My Country - fantastic.

[Guest]

or..

 

I vow to me my country - pretty dodgy!!

 

the words ask me to pledge that I vow to my country "the love that asks no questions"

 

that's not for me...

 

Phil

[Night Nurse]

True.......

 

and all that about 'making undaunted the final sacrifice" - dying for the old country, one presumes.....

 

Maybe not then.....

 

Perhaps we should stick with the Sex Pistols??

[Guest]

(I Vow To Thee My Country) The second verse is good though.

[Guest]

Perhaps we should stick with the Sex Pistols??

 

I'll go with that! It has to be very, very loud, though. I only have it on vinyl - and it is very scratched...

 

Phil

 

God save the queen her fascist regime

It made you a moron a potential h bomb !

 

God save the queen she ain’t no human being

There is no future in england’s dreaming

 

Don’t be told what you want don’t be told what you need

There’s no future no future no future for you

 

God save the queen we mean it man (God save window leen)

We love our queen God saves (God save... human beings)

 

God save the queen cos tourists are money

And our figurehead is not what she seems

Oh God save history God save your mad parade

Oh lord God have mercy all crimes are paid

 

When there’s no future how can there be sin

We’re the flowers in the dustbin

We’re the poison in your human machine

We’re the future your future

 

God save the queen we mean it man

There is no future in england’s dreaming

 

No future for you no future for me

No future no future for you

[Mrs Frugal]

 

How about I vow to Thee My Country?....(Music - Holst)

 

OH YES !! Definitely!

[Hellcat]

I agree that all four nations should be able to be proud of their country - but its not considered 'pc' to shout about being proud to be English. Not so long ago that would have branded you a rascist.

 

'I vow to thee, my country'

'Jerusalem'

'Pomp and circumstance'

 

any of the above for me.

[Popcorn]

Yes, it does seem logical to have an 'English' anthem.

 

Does logic EVER come into decisons like this though

 

[Guest]

Jerusalem...

 

"and did those feet in ancent times walk upon England's mountains green?"

 

• 1. Which English mountains are we talking about?
  2. answer: no they didn't - end of.

 

Phil

[Guest]

[Lesley-Jean]

Jerusalem...

 

"and did those feet in ancent times walk upon England's mountains green?"

 

• 1. Which English mountains are we talking about?
  2. answer: no they didn't - end of.

 

Phil

The text of the poem Jerusalem by Blake was inspired by the legend that Jesus, while still a young man, accompanied Joseph of Arimathea to Glastonbury which is what Blake beleived. As we all know this was highly unlikely. Unlike revnev I could not say an absolute NO as I was not there at the time and just have to depend on others opinions. I prefere take the meaning for me as the word and works of Jesus rather than his actual physical feet came and walked these lands. The answer then is YES

[Louise]

Theologial debate

 

*pulls up chair to watch avidly*

 

[Guest]

 

Spirit and meaning - Yes

feet - no!

 

and - England doesn't have any green mountains does it?

 

Phil

[Lesley-Jean]

 

Spirit and meaning - Yes

feet - no!

 

and - England doesn't have any green mountains does it?

 

Phil

 

Metaphorical feet and real green mountains. I walk them most years for my summer holidays.

[Guest]

The text of the poem Jerusalem by Blake was inspired by the legend that Jesus, while still a young man, accompanied Joseph of Arimathea to Glastonbury which is what Blake beleived. As we all know this was highly unlikely. Unlike revnev I could not say an absolute NO as I was not there at the time and just have to depend on others opinions. I prefere take the meaning for me as the word and works of Jesus rather than his actual physical feet came and walked these lands. The answer then is YES

 

Well said!

[Guest]

Many years ago I attended a few seminars in Oxford on the Symbolism of Blake...

 

it is very, very, very complicated - (and beyond me!) - but then he was a mystic - and it is the job of mystics not to be fully understood!

 

Blake seemd to "invent/develop" his own mythology - two characters I can remember - Orc (messiah-type-fgure) and Urizen (a cruel God) - and they appear in his famous engravings.

 

The first bit of Jerusalem came from the beginning of "Milton", I think (and did those feet) - that's as much as I can remember!

 

as for having it as a national anthem - which is where we began... Blake would turn in his grave at the very idea (even more so if it was going to be sung by Fat Les!)

 

Blake was not a 'nationalist' in any sense we understand it: he despised the status quo, loathed the Church and spent his whole life preaching the supremacy of the imagination/vision over reason/logic. Blake was anti-science and anti the growth of capitalism - I think these are the "Satanic Mills" that he mentions - they aren't the mills that Fred Dibnah blew up!

 

as far as I know Blake never did an engraving of a chicken...

 

Phil