Cube mk2 and WIR

[Fur 'n' Feathers]

We have found that 2 of the vets at our local practice have an interest in chickens, which is wonderful & probably due to being semi-rural.

 

Today we took advantage of this & had a discussion with one of them about the issue of worming. As other Omleteers may know we have gone down the Vermex route because we want to treat our chickens as naturally as possible.

 

The upshot was this. The vet was very responsive to our questions & stance. (She was also very interested in the use of yoghurt & views it beneficial herself after any course of anti-biotics ). We explained we weren't that keen on regular worming and discussed the pros & cons of this. She said that, as we only have 3 hens, rather than a larger number in a restricted area, that it wasn't so common and that we may be able to get away with a preventative like Vermex. She stated in this sort of low risk situation control can be used in many circumstances without harm to the hens (meaning Vermex/APC).

 

She agreed that worms, where early presence in young birds, are not necessarily visible in the poo, but that eggs would be detectable. Our vets offer an alternative to regular worming for those that want a more natural solution, of a poo sample test . We give them a sample of poo and they examine it under a microscope to detaect the presence of any eggs. Apparently, this is particularly useful where early infection is undetectable by the human eye.

 

Both she & we were interested to try this out as an experiment regarding our particular situation. We've now had the hens 6 months and they do free-range, including worm/bug eating. This procedure costs £18.50. If there's no presence detected we will be able to continue with our current Vermex/APV/monitoring regime. If there's early signs (there aren't any obvious signs as they are all fit & well) then we'll give in and worm them on a regular basis. We have been given a container to gather a combined sample of all 3 hens. We're in a position where we can fork out the cost at this moment and are very interested in what the outcome will be.

 

If they do have signs of worms the vet advocates Panacur as it is easier to give and is used in lung worm across animal species (gape-worm).

 

Has anyone else heard of this as a management option, rather than worming regardless.

Edited November 10, 2008 by Guest

[Egluntyne]

It will be interesting to hear how your hens get on.

 

How often will you have their poo tested?

[Fur 'n' Feathers]

No idea at present. Will give full outcome after the poo test results.

 

This may sound "sad", but we're quite excited about the idea . We must get out more

[Christian]

Not sad at all! (or maybe I am)?

 

I found out that chickens can cope with worms for up to about 5 months, after that the infestation starts to make them feel really bad. When you worm them, with a chemical wormer, it destroys nearly all of the worms, but not all. This is why it is recommended to worm every 4 months or so, as the cycle starts up again.

 

Will be interesting to see how you get one.

[Snowy]

I think it's a brilliant idea! The reason so many treatments are often given out 'just in case' is because the investigative tests can be prohibitively expensive, usually involving sending to a lab for analysis. But if your vet has a half decent microscope and knows what to look for costs can be kept down. Well done that vet, let us know what they find!

[..lay a little egg for me]

I know someone who is using this approach for worming horses, so I don't see why you can't do it with chooks too. Also, someone told me that HFW reckons that if you move the area the chickens free range on every 3 months then they keep free of worms because that is the length of the worm life-cycle. Don't know if this is true, and obviously can only work if you have a moveable run and enough land to be able to do so, but again, an interesting approach. Perhaps it could be used along with the sample testing...

[Old Speckled Hen]

Fur 'n' Feathers

 

You know you can learn to do this very easily yourself with minimal laboratory equipment; slides, salt solution to float the eggs to where you can see them.

You need to find a second hand microscope certainly but this doesn't have to be an expensive item as you don't need much magnification.

Then you could have a look yourself monthly.

 

Food for thought here.

Mine free range all day and I've been worming them every six weeks or so.

There must be a better way. Might give this a go myself.

[Egluntyne]

I know someone who is using this approach for worming horses, so I don't see why you can't do it with chooks too. Also, someone told me that HFW reckons that if you move the area the chickens free range on every 3 months then they keep free of worms because that is the length of the worm life-cycle. Don't know if this is true, and obviously can only work if you have a moveable run and enough land to be able to do so, but again, an interesting approach. Perhaps it could be used along with the sample testing...

 

 

I'm sure this is the key. Mine range on the same piece of land....no option about that, and there are wild birds visiting all the time, so I prefer to worm my hens, but I can see the merit of the other approach.

[The Dogmother]

Panacur (the 10% small animal solution) is by far the most effective and broad spectrum wormer for hens, it is also easier to administer. *it is not licensed for use on poultry in the UK* but most vets will recommend it. You dose with 2 doses 1 week apart and can easily syringe it into their beaks.

 

Treating the soil in their run with garden lime on a regular basis also helps to destroy the worm cysts in the soil.

[Fur 'n' Feathers]

Thanks Caret. We've never been at ease with the idea of tiny doses of Flubenvet, though we're sure others are quite comfortable with it. When our cat was being investigated for cause of his asthma we were given Panacur as a precaution in case there was lung worm (but there wasn't) so we've used this in the past.

 

We quite like the idea of testing rather than balnket treatment.

 

We've got the hens on their winter standing now, but will return them to the mobile method next spring. This should give the ground a rest at different times of the year.

[Milly]

I will be interested to hear the results. We use vermex and move our hens around every 6 weeks or so (we are lucky to have lots of space and are mainly limited by how far the power supply for the electric fence will reach). But even though I can see no sign of worms I worry about them.

 

I was a bit sceptical when I read your vet was charging £18.50 to test - I thought they were going to do each one and make lots of money. But it actually makes sense to check a mix of poo from all three as you would expect them all to have a problem with worms if one has them. So keep us posted please!

 

Milly

[The Dogmother]

My vet charges £5 for a poop test

 

I had it done once when the original Ruby Tuesday was poorly

[Fur 'n' Feathers]

Claret - how long ago was that. Perhaps it's SE England prices!

[The Dogmother]

Claret - how long ago was that. Perhaps it's SE England prices!

 

That was just last summer when Ruby was on the way out.

[Fur 'n' Feathers]

We've got the feedback from our vet today. She apologised profusely as a colleague tested the poo the same day as we put it in, but had not informed her of the results and then she was away. Was quite happy to waive the fee

 

Anyway......... the result is.............. ........... after testing .............. ..... that the chicken poo.................. ................................... ............... is totally free of worms

 

She said that the samples were enough to show that the chickens definately do not have worms. No sign of worm eggs at all.

 

Her view was that, with the setup we have, the history of our ground (no prvious chickens), and the fact that we have not introduced other chickens that might be carrying worms, that ther is only low risk of picking up from wild birds/worms/slugs. She said that if we wished to use this method to monitor the chickens instead of routine worming she'd be happy to do this for us 6-monthly.

 

We will continue to Vermex, ACV, garlic powder etc. as this is helpful in making their innids hostile. We feel this is the route we would prefer to take as an iseal (although we have Flubenvet in stock for use if they ever got worms).

 

We've had the girls 7 months now & they've been happy free-ranging for a good deal of the summer, so this was extremely reassuring for us.

[sandyhas3chucks]

Fur 'n' Feathers

 

You know you can learn to do this very easily yourself with minimal laboratory equipment; slides, salt solution to float the eggs to where you can see them.

You need to find a second hand microscope certainly but this doesn't have to be an expensive item as you don't need much magnification.

Then you could have a look yourself monthly.

 

Food for thought here.

Mine free range all day and I've been worming them every six weeks or so.

There must be a better way. Might give this a go myself.

 

I saw a usb microscope either dabs or maplin. do you think that would enable you to see them?

what do they look like.

 

One note though. one of mine had a huge worm for sure... no sign, of them before worming, looked like the spaghetti in tom sauce photo. my 1st ever chooks, never been kept in this garden before , moved run every 4/5 weeks since they came.

Wormed as she had runny poohs & was underweightI did as precaution to elimenate causes! Had them since May! it was horrid!

Please keep us all posted, not happy with doing regardless really.

[Fur 'n' Feathers]

One note though. one of mine had a huge worm for sure... no sign, of them before worming....

 

That's exactly why we had the poo tested. Often chickens can have worms with no external signs: healthy, no pooing of worms, etc. However, in the early stages they will have eggs in their poo! Testing the poo will give accurate and early results.

[sandyhas3chucks]

Would retfords test for worms and be an exceptable price for us all?

[Old Speckled Hen]

Fur 'n' Feathers

 

You know you can learn to do this very easily yourself with minimal laboratory equipment; slides, salt solution to float the eggs to where you can see them.

You need to find a second hand microscope certainly but this doesn't have to be an expensive item as you don't need much magnification.

Then you could have a look yourself monthly.

 

Food for thought here.

Mine free range all day and I've been worming them every six weeks or so.

There must be a better way. Might give this a go myself.

 

I saw a usb microscope either dabs or maplin. do you think that would enable you to see them?

what do they look like.

 

One note though. one of mine had a huge worm for sure... no sign, of them before worming, looked like the spaghetti in tom sauce photo. my 1st ever chooks, never been kept in this garden before , moved run every 4/5 weeks since they came.

Wormed as she had runny poohs & was underweightI did as precaution to elimenate causes! Had them since May! it was horrid!

Please keep us all posted, not happy with doing regardless really.

Hi sandy,

This is what you look for and a cheap microscope is fine.

 

There is a really useful if long article here

http://www.smallholder.co.uk/mostpopular.var.976875.mostviewed.worms_in_waterfowl_and_poultry.php

[Fur 'n' Feathers]

Interesting article DA.

 

Our hens have never been wormed - by that we mean with a product like Flubenvet. We've only ever used Vermex, ACV and garlic.

 

We've had the hens 7 months now, as can be seen by our signature. We live in a semi-rural area (was rural till the estates were built this millenium).

 

Our land has never had chickens on before and we only have 3 hens. They came from a poultry breeder who keeps them inside and will not let people inside the barn where they live. In fact she's careful if people come on site who already have chickens! So, they came to us worm-free. All of these factors have helped to keep the risks down. It seems to have paid off.

 

We realise there will always be some risk and are prepared for this. We wouldn't feel that confident in looking for the eggs ourselves and, seeing that the cat costs us nearly £40 pa for vaccinations, feel that £37pa is a small price to pay & is offset by selling the surplus eggs(something keeping the cat doesn't contribute! - in fact we're still waiting for him to start paying rent as we are convinced he's freelancing in cat adverts!!! ).

[sandyhas3chucks]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3169/3020179452_04ab21e625_s.jpg[/img]

Hi sandy,

This is what you look for and a cheap microscope is fine.

 

There is a really useful if long article here

http://www.smallholder.co.uk/mostpopular.var.976875.mostviewed.worms_in_waterfowl_and_poultry.php

thanks DA not too long... but looks like impossible to keep worm free? Must relook at Stylosan F, think this helps, but only in the run, though I now put under the bird feeder too (wild ones)

[Old Speckled Hen]

sandyhas3chucks

 

thanks DA not too long... but looks like impossible to keep worm free? Must relook at Stylosan F, think this helps, but only in the run, though I now put under the bird feeder too (wild ones)

There is no way we can keep our birds entirely free of worms but hens can tolerate them until they become such a burden that illness prevails.

The idea is to periodically administer wormer to keep this burden low and I think three times a year should be sufficient. I used to go for overkill and worm them every six weeks. Now I aim for a dose in the Autumn, Spring and somewhere in between. They also get a dose of Eprinex at this time of year to kill any ectoparasites before they spend a lot of time in the coop.

Eprinex is not licensed for use for poultry in the UK