sleepymummy Posted October 30, 2008 Author Share Posted October 30, 2008 Goodness me, what a can of worms I seem to have opened! As a newcomer to hen keeping I seem to get conflicting advice. Some say they stop laying after about 2 cycles, some say its a gradual thing, they can live for more than 5 years, they live for less than 5 years etc etc. I know it's early, but there's no harm in discussing all the options and it is quite good to know they aren't good for roasting! I am a meat eater and when we got them I knew I wouldn't get as attached to them as I would a dog. they are not a companion. They look fab, are funny, nice to have them pottering about the garden and the children love them, but above all I get eggs. That was the main reason. We can't be self sufficient here. Not enough room, time and too many small children but going a little bit closer to it is great. We grew tomatoes this year, we have planted an apple tree, we grew peppers, strawberries, cougettes and we get fresh eggs everyday. I am trying to be pragmatic if that is the right word. I see pets as dogs cats etc and my girls are half way. Pets as I treat them and talk to them but livestock because i am keeping them for their eggs and when they stop laying I don't have room for many/any more....I know I will have to reassess when the time comes and I'm pretty sure I will "chicken" out of eating them (pardon the pun!) but it's good to talk about it as that part of it we failed to do before we got them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallina Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I would wait and see what happens, and see how you feel then. I can quite understand only wanting to have hens that lay, as looking after non-layers and having to buy eggs is very annoying. Those who have room tend to solve the problem by increasing our flock and pretending that the useless ones don't eat much. (Obviously my Cochin who is barren and so very, very fat must have hormone trouble: she can't possibly be the one hoovering up the pellets.) I have experienced two sudden deaths well before the hennopause, so no decision had to be made. Your decisions may be made for you: just enjoy your hens now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I would agree with chickenanne. I am not a vegan so can't criticise anyone for killing and eating their chickens. However I would not want to eat my own! irrational really - better that than buy one that's had a miserable life in a shed... In an ideal world I would be a vegetarian and only have milk and eggs from my own animals - but if I did this i would never be able to go on holiday again! (also I like meat) - so will just continue to turn a blind eye to all the inhumane treatment of animals that goes on with most farming and slaughter methods... Has anyone read 'The pig who howls at the moon' by jeffrey dutton (or something similar)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepymummy Posted October 30, 2008 Author Share Posted October 30, 2008 Thanks for all your tips and advice. i do intend to wait and see as it were, there is nothing else I can do but i just wondered what other people did as lots of you seem to have quite a flock going on! I haven't read the book. What's it about? Worth a read? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 It's about farm animals and their emotions and things, with examples of extraordinary things they've done. and also about factory farming and how bad it is. There's a chapter on chickens. I am a callous meat eater but it has been making me think. It's by Jeffrey Masson not dutton. Another good book as well is 'Secret life of cows' by Rosamund Young, about all the cute things cows do. Some hen stories in there too. That one's a bit more light hearted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrie Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 OllieC: My cat hasn't laid an egg for 7 years - I'm thinking I might have to eat her too... I hear cats taste like chicken!??!!! Our girls hopefully will last till we move to a bigger place (smaller house - more land), and then that won't be a problem for us. I don't think I could eat my girls - yuk, too tough and chewy probably. Nope, perish the thought, I couldn't do it. I possibly would if I had lots of them and the cockrels, but OH would have to dispatch them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesley Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Those who have room tend to solve the problem by increasing our flock and pretending that the useless ones don't eat much. (Obviously my Cochin who is barren and so very, very fat must have hormone trouble: she can't possibly be the one hoovering up the pellets.) That sounds so familiar I said earlier that I wouldn't eat the layers - forgot to say that we added some table birds to our small flock and we didn't name them (apart from to call them all 'Dinner' ) We still find it had to do but it is our way round the problem. no help to you of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandychick Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 OllieC:My cat hasn't laid an egg for 7 years - I'm thinking I might have to eat her too... I hear cats taste like chicken!??!!! Yes it does - I ate a cat sandwich in Cambodia and it was nice. I'm not going to cook my cat though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggypeggy Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Oh blimey this is a good discussion. Sorry Aaron, sorry my opinion is perhaps a bit brutal. Just saying how it is for me and my family. I thinks it helps to have lots of different opinions. I would also like to have birds just for the table .. but again don't have the space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronmusgrove123 Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 hiya its all wright i not against table birds (still coundt do it ) but i could grow attached use them for a few years then kill them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrie Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Sandychick - you are very brave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HasSumAmi Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Really interesting discussion. There's no way I could eat a bird I had named and cuddled - far too sentimental an old fool! A question though: I would want a maximum of eight chickens at any one time. My run and lifestyle dictate that more might be a bit much at the moment. Shall I get them in two batches of four with a year in-between, in order to allow for retirements? That had been my initial plan until Mr Fox killed my four girls last week. Or shall I just get eight right at the start and see what happens with nature taking it course. This would of course make me happy as I want a mix, but I also want to have an eye on the future given this discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pistachio Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 sleepy mummy - it sounds like you are enjoying your chickens for their own sake quite apart from the eggs I have a feeling that you will find a way round this when the time comes. I wouldn't feel awful for letting the thought enter your head. People who buy free range organic eggs probably don't think about whether or not the chickens are allowed to take up space when laying days end. I'm going to stick with my chickens as long as they are enjoying life and are pain free and I have to admit being rather taken aback by your post to say the least - but I am certainly in a pet mindset. I'm sure there are plenty of people here (including me when I'm more experienced with integrating new chickens) who will be happy to take chickens who have gone through the hennopause as Egluntine says. Enjoy your chickens and you will know what to do when the time comes. It's great to hear that you and your family are enjoying them so much - i bet the chickens are loving their new home too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OllieC Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 The general consensus seems to be - morally everyone would be comfortable to do it, but in reality everyone's too much of a softie! It is one of those slightly annoying things people keep saying, "oh, when will you eat them", and yes my stock response is that as they have almost no meat on them, it would be a waste of a perfectly good layer dumbass. Now, anyone got any cat recipe's?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paola Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Now, anyone got any cat recipe's?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrie Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 How about Meow Mein? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronze Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I think there's a very big difference between eating pets and eating livestock....!. Completely right but just because I keep my birds in an eglu and a cube doesnt mean I consider them solely as pets. I use this housing as its good for their welfare and for my sanity. Maybe I'm not the only one who does this and is doing it to feed our families with better quality food with higher ethical standards.Having said all that I wont be eating my layers simply because they would be stringy little things. Though they do get muttered threats evry now and then I hav my hand full prepping all the meat birds anyway so I think they'll be safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronze Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 hi im sorry if i offend any one but i think it is so wrong just killing the poor little animal because she doesnt lay its like killing my grandma because she cant have kids anymore i am totally against it Our chooks are livestock/pets.. I'm not overly attached to them which may make a difference. But we plan to slaughterthem. im sorry but i think that is shocking how could you just kill them beacause they dont lay they are just little old chickwoman aaron p.s if you didnt know im agaist it I'm assuming you are vegan then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallina Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 And even if you are a vegan, what do you think happened to your girls' brothers? It's much better to grow your own chickens to eat than to buy them in the supermarket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronmusgrove123 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 no im not vegan i eat meat but meat birds my point is that its basically being a user killing it as soon as it wont lay like i said if you raise something for meat than that's ok because that's itss purpose And even if you are a vegan, what do you think happened to your girls' brothers? well actually i hatched my my first 2 chickens and the second lot where bought but the man had all the cockerels still for sale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Nesbitt Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I can't see the problem with giving them a good life and then ending it humanely when they stop laying. I think that this approach is just as valid when you take animals on and give them a decent home. Def. don't have a problem with fattening some up for the table if they're the right sort of breed. Wouldn't fancy eating our layers: 1) they're layers and would be a bit tough and stringy, and 2) I've seen the state their bottoms get into What is it with chickens and their bottoms... it would be the one thing that would put me off Mrs N x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beach chick Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 just caught up with this, and I think it's very valid to raise the issue. I'd love to raise meat birds; what puts me off is the dispatching (although if you get Practical Poultry mag and read the small ads you can buy a bit of kit to ensure it happens humanely) and the practicalities - havent got enough freezer space for say 8 at once, so do you do one a week or what? and then do you buy in another batch of babies from somewhere and start again? as for eating our layers - I dont think they'd make good eating, and I'm not sure I could do it anyway, although they are not 'pets' in the same way as our (my) dog and cats are. natural selection got 2 of our first 4 (1 labrador - not ours - and 1 fox) and we then added 6 more, 1 of whom turned out to be a cockerel. when this lot stop laying I suppose we'll have to reassess and possibly get more - I can see though that we will simply extend the electric fencing and add another house if need be so they could all hang out together. of course there is no economic sense to that, and the 'problem' that goes with good housing, good management, fox protection etc is that you reduce the 'opportunity' for natural selection that happens to birds in the wild. as for the 'cat sandwich in Cambodia' - very brave to try it, but having dealt with cat poo I dont think I could eat one!!!!! I also think the life - and death - of the cat that ends up being eaten in Cambodia is not one that bears thinking about. (sorry, that sounds really snotty and critical, not meant to be a personal comment just that when you read about what happens to them it is really terrible.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Looney Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 OUr ladies will become free-loaders...but then we do have space to add a couple more so will still get eggs once these two stop laying. OH often threatens to put ours in the pot (usually when they are kicking stones onto the grass or digging up plants ) and I tell him to go for it! I know he wouldn't do it so it is a bit of a long standing joke in our house now. I think our girls would be as tough as old boots by the time they stop laying and neither are overly plump so probably not worth the effort Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenanne Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 The only difference in chickens kept as pets or as livestock IMO is how the owner feels about them.....not something intrinsic in how they are kept or the chicken itself. Despatching layers once they're past it is perfectly acceptable to me, I've no problem at all with it. My point re: pets and livestock was about how I would feel about eating the resulting dinner, nothing else! I don't believe chickens feel a sense of "betrayal" or anything, and therefore eating them "just becuase" they can no longer lay isn't an issue to me: I don't see how it makes you a "user". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrie Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Looney: OUr ladies will become free-loaders... I'd rather have the freeloading chickens than my son who seems to be doing just that at the moment. But I'm not yet into cannibalism - give it a little more time though . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
